Possible complexity with stocks shares and future value

[CCsAreEvil]

Well, been thinking more and more this weekend after my 341 meeting this past week.

It appears the only complexity the UST was interested in was shares that I owned. I listed them on the initial filing as a few thousand shares because I was unable to find all the paperwork at the time. By my 341 meeting, I had found all the documents. So, it appears I had about 25k shares instead of what I stated. I did hand over the required documents the UST asked for during the meeting. He would review them.

I'll try to be brief on the stocks/shares. I worked for a company back in the late 1990s. I bought several options provided to employees. Eventually, the company never made a profit. Early 2000s, the "patents" owned by the company split into its own company entity.

The patent company has a few lawsuits against big corporations which it thinks it will win. After the initial venture capitalists get their money (several million), anything "potentially" leftover would go to the common shareholders (which I'm part of).

So.. as of today, there's no real value in the shares. There's "potential" value if the company wins some lawsuits. However, this can be within the next year, or couple of years.. or perhaps never get enough won cases to payout the initial venture capitalists so we never receive anything.

I'll be checking my pacer over the next 2 weeks to see what the UST concludes.

I see a few scenarios:

1. Instruct me to let him know if I receive any money from said shares in the next (year?) ever?

2. Since it's "unknown" if and when I will get anything, he'll just leave the BK case as "no asset" (best case scenario).

3. Dismiss my case since I way understated the amount of shares I have (even though I gave the official information at the 341). Worst case..

I'm sure there are other possible outcomes.. but I'll update this thread when I hear back.

[OhioFiler]

The value of the shares on the date of your filing is what the trustee is interested in. He's not going to speculate on future value.

I'm sure the failure to disclose the correct number of shares raised some eyebrows though.

[CCsAreEvil]

It was so long ago and since I figured the shares were worthless I forgot how many I had until I was able to find the actual paperwork.

Well, current value would be $0 because there are pending lawsuits hoping to be won. And, who knows if and ever I will get anything out of the options. It could be as early as months from now to years... or like I said, never get anything.

I'm crossing my fingers still.

[CCsAreEvil]

Well, I guess it was too good to be true. Trustee put in an application to employ an attorney... "for the following purpose" (only listed items that seem interesting):

* ...represent Trustee's interest in suits arising/related to this case
* ...concerning questions arising in the conduct of the admin. of the estate...estate's assets and the claims of secured, preferred and unsecured creditors and other parties in interest
* ...assist in prep. of such pleadings, motions, notices and orders as are required for the orderly administration of this estate...consult with and advise Trustee in connection with the operation of or the termination of the operation of the business of the Debtors

My initial guess is with my potential gain (which is unknown.. could be nothing or maybe a few hundred dollars.. .could be a few months from now or years from now) with stock options I've had.

The business part does not make much sense. I had a small computer repair business which never made much money (shown in my tax returns). I only made $1-2k a year.

Well, I guess it will not be a simple case. I e-mailed my atty to see if it's possible to find out more details. Guess, we'll wait and see.

[CCsAreEvil]

It's almost been a month and no update to my case. Still says "no asset" with no updates.

What somewhat bugs me is isn't our own tax dollars used to hire an attorney for the UST's side of the case? I guess it's just part of the system.

Just can't wait until this whole thing is over.

[backtoschool]

It's almost been a month and no update to my case. Still says "no asset" with no updates.

What somewhat bugs me is isn't our own tax dollars used to hire an attorney for the UST's side of the case? I guess it's just part of the system.

Just can't wait until this whole thing is over.

Most of the time when the UST or the panel trustee hires an attorney or hires themselves as an attorney, you will be made an asset case.

As soon as my trustee hired himself as an attorney, I was made an asset case within a day or so.

Being made an asset case will not affect your discharge though.

[rrj]

im sorta of shy and dont like to make new post for everything

i have a qusestion aoubt stocks, over a year ago i had some money in a little stock site online.
I just put it all in charter commications.
i have 900 shares there bankrupt now. i only paid about 9 cents each for them and now there worth about about 2 cents

will this hurt my filing. i almost forgot about them untill i seen this thread

[backtoschool]

im sorta of shy and dont like to make new post for everything

i have a qusestion aoubt stocks, over a year ago i had some money in a little stock site online.
I just put it all in charter commications.
i have 900 shares there bankrupt now. i only paid about 9 cents each for them and now there worth about about 2 cents

will this hurt my filing. i almost forgot about them untill i seen this thread

The stocks were worth $81 dollars when you bought them, and are now worth $18 dollars. The trustee will not see the stock as an asset worth pursuing. If you already filed, then I the fee to amend your petition will cost more than the stocks are worth, so I would not bother amending. If you have not filed yet, then list them at their current value.

[rrj]

The stocks were work $81 dollars when you bought them, and are now worth $18 dollars. The trustee will not see the stock as an asset worth pursuing. If you already filed, then I the fee to amend your petition will cost more than the stocks are worth, so I would not bother amending. If you have not filed yet, then list them at their current value.

thank you
I file on tues, i turned the questioner last week
i pay my last payment to the lawyer and go over the questioner
i called twice last week to make sure i didnt forget a bill but they said dont worry they will go over with me on tues
so i will just tell them tues

[CCsAreEvil]

Today's the last day for objections. Case still marked "no asset". No updates from the T's side except "employ/hire atty". My atty hasn't heard of any updates, either.

Question though: If there were no objections, UST still tries to obtain assets/funds to distribute?

/crossesfingers

[justbroke]

Question though: If there were no objections, UST still tries to obtain assets/funds to distribute?

Discharge is completely different from an Asset Case designation. They are two different things (discharge and close). I don't believe your discharge is in trouble at all. This day will pass and you'll be unofficially discharged.

Now, the discharge can come and go, but the UST's ability to recover and liquidate assets is still within their power until the case is closed.

[coolmom04]

CCsAreEvil, just wondering if there have been any updates on your case? We're about to go through something similar, but my husband has stock options and restricted stocks. I think the "current" value on the date he filed was about $3K, but the potential value as of the time they all vest based on today's market price is about 16K. We are REALLY hoping that the trustee is only interested in the value on file date and not the future potential b/c I really dont want them to keep the case open forever The current vesting schedule stretches out 4 years!

ETA: I forgot to mention that the attorney decided to exempt an approximate potential value of $8K (50% discount) of the stocks due to the current economic state, the market fluctuations, and the fact that if my husband's job ends, then there won't be ANY stocks anyway.

[CCsAreEvil]

As of today, no update from the trustee. My case "still" shows as "No Asset". However, the trustee requested our 2009 tax refund. So, I'm thinking he is only interested in that. I just barely did my taxes. I know he will take a chunk of that. Hopefully, that's all he wants and will close the case afterwards. I may have noted this in a previous post but ran some numbers on any likelihood on what I would receive from the stocks. It would end up being $200 or $300. So, maybe the trustee discovered this, too and has abandoned the stocks. Of course, the other thing is, he may keep the case open for another year (or who knows how long) to see if any value comes from the stocks.

My gut tells me he'll just take a good chunk of the 09 refund and close the case. I should have an update when I hear back about the refund.

[CCsAreEvil]

Called the TT's office and spoke with him. He basically said he abandoned the stocks since it was mentioned that there was no value. I didn't ask any details. I would assume the atty he hired must have done a quick investigation and concluded there was no value (even as of today, I've received nothing).

Too much worry/paranoia over nothing. The only thing keeping my case open is my 09 refund. So, the case should be closing within another month or so. Yay!