Continue to make monthly minimum just prior to filing?

[Walter]

One more (perhaps dumb) question:

I advised my father to not make the monthly payments from this point forward, given he's 100% filing. Not simply because I think this is throwing good money after bad, but because I think being able to meet the monthly payment in the short term shows, well, the ability to make the monthly payment.

Long story short, SS + $300/month retirement with zero non-exempt income and $40K+ in debt...to demonstrate that you have an inability to pay by not paying, I thought, makes the case better than paying the monthly minimum and arguing that you can't....thought?

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Walter: an old maxim: 'the only dumb (or stupid) question is the one NOT asked. So that settles that.

For your Dad, if he is 100% sure that he will file BK, then he needs to stop making any payments to credit cards. This is throwing good money after bad. The rule of thought is to take that money he is now saving and save up for a BK attorney.

[AngelinaCat]

I put that up as quick as I could as I see you are up, so perhaps we can discuss this a little.

I understand that your Mom is alive as well. Are they both together and married? Or are they separated/divorced and having separate households?

I read your two earlier posts and did not get a clear understanding of that. I did see you bought the NOLO book. Yes, it can be daunting, but will become clearer as you work with this situation.

What are your parent's ages?

You do know that Dad's SS and retirement income SHOULD be 100% exempt, unless I am missing something. Is there any other income?

[Walter]

Thanks for the prompt reply!

We are hoping this one is so straight forward that we can go the pro se route and save the $1K+ in lawyer expense, given little to no net worth/assets, serious medical condition, will never work again, zero non-exempt income, and a mountain of debt from trying to pay off his debt with more debt...sad story of many people's lives nowadays.

I'm hoping this is a 'no brainer' for the court and we can get this discharged so we don't run the risk of this impacting my mother down the road.

Thanks again...good advice!

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Walter, I still don't know how Mom figures into this. I am in Florida which is a joint-tenancy state. I am not real sure on how community property states work.

Now it is possible for Dad to file alone, and then (I think) Mom's assets won't be covered, except as a contributor to the household expenses and upkeep. Again, this is something I am not sure of.

But for sure Stop paying those credit cards, poor guy. Is he a veteran?

[Walter]

I understand that your Mom is alive as well. Are they both together and married? Or are they separated/divorced and having separate households?

What are your parent's ages?

You do know that Dad's SS and retirement income SHOULD be 100% exempt, unless I am missing something. Is there any other income?

Yes, mom is alive and doing well for her situation; they are married and living together. She is 59 and he is 64'ish.

My father just had his bone marrow transplant and hasn't worked in 5 years; mom was laid off 6 months ago and unemployment is running out...no insurance, either. Really is a sad story, but I'll leave it at that.

Therefore, all income is considered exempt, I believe, which is why I am thinking this one is easy to argue for the BK.

[Walter]

Now it is possible for Dad to file alone, and then (I think) Mom's assets won't be covered, except as a contributor to the household expenses and upkeep.

Yea, definitely can go it alone, so that's the way I understand it for common law states - mom's income (which is another month or two of unemployment, which might also be exempt) and expenses get reported, but since no joint liability and no joint assets except the house, I think she will be protected, which is the reason we plan to go the BK route...

Thanks so much for helping to confirm my assumptions as I work through all this (and digest 400+ pages of NOLO).

[AngelinaCat]

Your Dad and Mom sound a lot like my 'Hub and I. We are 65 and 57, respectively. 'Hub got prostate cancer in 2004, had surgery, then had a skil-saw accident in 2007. He now has a hernia that is called 'surgically induced'. That is a long story for another time.

I have been unemployed from my FT job now for two years. I have a small intermittent PT job. I have been drawing Unemployment from the FT job now for TWO years. I just check my account a couple of days ago, and I have been extended again for a FOURTH time. Your Mom may end up being pleasantly surprised. I certainly hope so.

[Walter]

Very similar story indeed. Dad has non-Hodgkin lymphoma, mom had polio as a kid and should have never even walked, but has worked (often 2-3 jobs) her entire life...unemployment is to only thing keeping them afloat right now, so an extension would really hit the spot during these times.

That and AFLAC cancer insurance...godsend. People like to hate the insurance companies, but AFLAC cancer is among the best...$1,600 checks were making ends meet during all the treatments and never had to come out of pocket for the $5K shots or anything else...

The sad part is mom cutting back on her blood sugar medicine, since running low and the 'no insurance' rate for the blood test needed to get her perscription filled in $900 a pop...which is about what COBRA wants to charge her.

I wish there were a spot on the BK forms to tell stories like yours and mine...income figures, mean tests, and debt numbers don't tell the half of it. ;(

[AngelinaCat]

Make sure you go to WalMart and get their list of meds that they will cover for $4.00. It may only be a 30 day supply, or less but do it.

A PM is following; please stay online.

[Michigan1951]

AngelinaCat, if Walter is a veteran as well or even not, and has all non-exempt income, etc., does his disposable income play a part still to decide which chapter 7 or 13 he would be put into? Walter's case is very similar to ours. We are the same age and everything too. What is your take on this?

[OhioFiler]

AngelinaCat, if Walter is a veteran as well or even not, and has all non-exempt income, etc., does his disposable income play a part still to decide which chapter 7 or 13 he would be put into? Walter's case is very similar to ours. We are the same age and everything too. What is your take on this?

Being old doesn't provide additional security under BAPCPA. If the debt was incurred while the petitioner was serving in the military the B22A is not used for presumption of abuse determination.

[Michigan1951]

Could a person be forced into a c13 if the all income was proven to be exempt, and this person's income was incurred after he retired from military years down the road then?

My lawyer said he finds it really difficult for the trustee to be able to do this since the income is all exempt. If so, where does that leave us? He isn't for sure either yet.

This is so much like Walter's case too!