How to determine if chpt 7 or 13 is the one to file for

[OHBOY]

As I will have to file for BK in the near future I have been 'lurking' on this board for some time now, and really appreciate everyones input as I find both, questions and answers not only interesting, but also very helpful.

I will be filing by myself, without my spouse, and did see an attorney in August.
Made the mistake of paying him a $ 100 retainer, but since then have come to conclusion that I actually did not even recieve any helpful answers to the few questions I had at the time, and I will definately not be using this guy in my bankruptcy. (just recieved vagueness...)

Since then I consulted with another attorney who only handles chapter 7 (did not pay him a retainer as of yet).

As you all well know, between worrying and trying to educate myself about the upcoming filing of bankruptcy, more and more questions are 'popping up'.

For example:

1. is it wise to hire an attorney that only handles chapter 7 ? (he also ONLY handles bankruptcies in his law practice, which I do like, and is almost impossible to find in my area.)
However, at the initial meeting he did not ask me to produce my expenses (though I had the list with me/clutched in my hands), instead he only asked if I had any monies left at the end of the month ?, to which the answer was/is : NO !

In retrospect, now that I have educated myself/been made aware of National and local 'standards' used for purpose of finding allowable amounts of deductions for cost of living, I am now wondering if my own list of actual expenses could possibly throw me into a chpt. 13, which would seem to make it stupid to hire an attorney that only files chapter 7.

(BTW, I pass the Means test for chpt. 7)

So, in order to determine which chapter would actually apply to me I am taking the list for 'standard' deductions off the IRS site. Sounds simple, however already there are problems:
There are two cars in household, one recently titled into my spouses name only (before that was in my 'or' spouses name), the other one remains in both names with the 'OR' title.
Both are paid for. One is a '97 with 115000 miles, the other a 2002 with 168000 miles.

I am confused as to whether or not I can take the National Ownership Costs for one or both vehicles, PLUS the 'Operating Costs' on one or both cars, or none whatsoever...?

also wondering about Social Security 'income' :

2. I know SS 'income' is NOT counted on Means test, however is it now (with all the new rulings) still included as 'income' as it would pertain to income versa repayment of credit card debts in bankruptcy ???

3. Are amounts of mandatory IRA withdrawals, ( or for that matter any amounts of IRA withdrawals), considered 'income' ?
Do they have to be included in the last 6 months of income, or for purpose of figuring income as it would pertain to 'Disposable income' ? ( the last consulted attorney 'did not know'...)

Sure would appreciate hearing from anybody on this board having knowledge/or experience on any of these topics.

THANKS !!!!!!

[kenshirley]

First of all any experienced BK attorney can handle either a 13 or 7.
SS is not income, you are correct. And why would you want to repay credit cards? They are unsecured and should be dischargeable under BK.

[OHBOY]

kenshirley: THANKS for your input on the SS income.
I understand that 'any experienced BK attorney can handle either a 13 or 7'...however, THIS attorney ONLY handles chapter 7, ...period...he is well known, it's hard/impossible to find any attorney around here (rural area) that handles bankruptcies only, 13or 7, hence the question on that topic. The first attorney (dud) I went to, was over 100 miles away...

Uhhh, to clarify: no, I hope not to have to make any repayment in bankruptcy, b-u-t, if I was to be thrown into chpt. 7 don't think I would have much choice (?)

[momisery]

We chose the 7 because we fit the median income/debt. But also because the 13 drags on and is not affordable. I heard stories about having to go to court to get a car while the 13 is going on and I felt that it would cost so much to go that way that if hubby did not find a job I could not afford it. Either way your credit is ruined. The 7 will be done and over with and we can go forward with a clean slate. One would think that the 13 would be less damaging since you are paying something, but I can see little good in it for those who can't afford to pay a thing, plus you still take the same hit as you do with a 7.

[pookieny]

If you qualify for a chapter 7, then go that route. I see no other advantage of doing a 13 other than you want to keep appraised assets or your house has more equity than is allowed in your state and you're keeping it. Don't do it because of a car, cars come and go these days.

[aljohnson007]

Passing the means test is one thing but the most important is total income vs total monthlty expenses which produces DMI. If you are filing individually, are all of the debts in your name alone? If so, and your State allows, you may want to consider Tenancy by Entirety (TBE).

[OHBOY]

Yes, all of the debts are in my name alone, ( though actually ALL were due to my spouses gambling) and yes, as I am also in FL & Tenancy by the Entirety is allowed in FL, however ... please forgive me, I don't understand how that would help me.