New Here - Assets Question for Ch. 7 liquidation

[eddiep]

Oh, as if I didn't say enough already
Let hubby know if he decides to stop paying and "take his chances", he may very well end up losing the car. With that much debt (not being judgmental, I had $160k in credit card debt!) you most likely will be sued by at least one of your creditors. Once they get a judgement they will go after your assets, including the car, they could garnish your wages and basically force you to repay them by what ever means you have.

[lrprn]

Would this be listed as well? Would this be taken from us if we filed?

No, it can't be taken. Retirement accounts like 401Ks are completely protected when you file bankruptcy.

Is there a list or form someplace that I can download so I can get an idea of what is considered an asset so I can figure out what we have as assets?

First, here's a link to the allowed MA bankruptcy exemptions - http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exe...achusetts.html . Look at the different exemptions and see what each one protects. That should give you an idea of where you might have issues if you have assets or other belongings that can't be completely protected by your exemptions when you file.

The place I see you might have trouble (and I know you don't want to hear this) is with your motor vehicle exemptions. You can only protect $700 of equity and you are trying to cover at least three cars with that measly amount. It really helps that your cars are old, but since they are paid for, you have to count the current market value of each against just $700 Be sure to discuss this with the bankruptcy lawyers you meet with.

And you are absolutely right - it's best to set up free initial consultations with at least 3-4 experienced bk lawyers in your area. Bankruptcy law requires a lot of interpretation, and different lawyers may have different ideas about what can be done and what can't. It's important to educate yourself about bankruptcy so you know enough to spot questionable answers and ask intelligent questions.

Here's the link to the current state median incomes by family size - http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/2...come_table.htm . You mentioned a son, so assuming you are a family of three, combine your and your husband's gross income from all sources for the last six full calendar months and multiply it by 2.

MA's median income for a family of three is $83,104. If your family's gross income total calculates to be above $83,104, then you can't assume you can file Ch 7 just from looking at your family's median income. You'll have to complete the rest of the Means Test and Schedules to see how much (if any) disposable income shows up.

If your family size is actually larger than three, then you can see on the table how you and your husband's gross income compares to the higher median income figures for a larger family size in MA.

Here's are good online electronic Means Test forms to fill in to see how you might come out on the required Means Test - https://www.legalconsumer.com/bankru...tate.php?st=MA . Remember that filling out these forms isn't easy - there are a lot of interpretations about what goes where and what the maximums allowed are in your local bk court that your lawyer will know but may seem confusing to you.

If you want to try filling out the actual B22A Means Test form that your lawyer would file if you are able to qualify for Ch 7, here's a link to that - http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For..._022A_1208.pdf . The same thing goes for filling in the forms - it's easy to misinterpret what needs to go where on the forms.

Hang in there. In our situation my husband was the money manager and he also kept how bad things had gotten to himself until it was far too late to do anything but file Ch 13. I had a very difficult time when I finally figured out we had no choice but to file. I don't think we spoke hardly a civil word to each other for months. But I did come around , and now we're going strong working together to manage our money. Just wish we had done it that way a long time ago, but better now than never! Don't give up, but also don't allow your husband wanting to pretend everything is ok stop you from doing what you need to. Go keep that appointment and set up the others so you find out what is going to be best for your family going forward.

[overthedebt]

No, it can't be taken. Retirement accounts like 401Ks are completely protected when you file bankruptcy.

I've been draining my IRA to keep up with my minimums. If I'm contemplating Ch 7, I guess I've been doing the wrong thing then? Have yet to consult an atty but month by month goes by and it's getting clearer and clearer I'm not going to make it out of this debt. :/

[Mom2two]

Thank you all. You're my lifeline right now. BTW I have two children and I still owe $1500 on the oldest and most beat up car. DH's job got cancelled at the last minute today and I had today off for medical tests so we had a chance to talk calmly. He apologized to me and I to him and we sat and communicated. I had him all ready for this meeting tonight, we had all the paperwork the lawyer wanted us to bring for the free consultation ( I spent hours and pretty much drained my ink cartridge getting it all together) and we both were in an open and positive frame of mind. I just got a call from the lawyers office to say he had to cancel. They said I could reschedule with another lawyer in their firm for next week. I told them NO I wanted the one I had been talking to. I told them I'd have to go with someone else then. They said they'll call back. Hm.. maybe he reads here and got scared? Well, if so you've lost our business. Now my emotions are all over the place again. I'm not able to reschedule due to medical tests I'm having over the next two weeks (another stressor depending on the outcome).

[Mom2two]

I was able to get ahold of the office where we were going to try for our second consultation and they said they'd see us tonight. Keeping fingers crossed.

Strange thing though, they said NOT to bring any of this paperwork in, not for the initial consultation. They found it strange that it was requested in the first place.

[Mom2two]

Wow I'm totally confused now, lol. I don't have any sheeps or goats or cows but if I'm allowed I want them. LOL.

My car is a 1999 and worth $1700 for trade according to KBB and I still owe $1400 on it. How sad is that?

DH's is worth $3500 and we own it.

According to the median income chart we're $12000 less than what is stated for a family of 4. According to the Means quick test on the link provided we are $1000 a month under what the median is.

It said something about we'd pass because we're under the median income and abuse would not be presumed?

If we did a Ch. 13, which is still a possibility, we'd only be able to pay $100 a month toward the ch. 13. Although I didn't include all the info because some of it confused me.

[TBLTZ]

Wow I'm totally confused now, lol. I don't have any sheeps or goats or cows but if I'm allowed I want them. LOL.

My car is a 1999 and worth $1700 for trade according to KBB and I still owe $1400 on it. How sad is that?

DH's is worth $3500 and we own it.

According to the median income chart we're $12000 less than what is stated for a family of 4. According to the Means quick test on the link provided we are $1000 a month under what the median is.

It said something about we'd pass because we're under the median income and abuse would not be presumed?

If we did a Ch. 13, which is still a possibility, we'd only be able to pay $100 a month toward the ch. 13. Although I didn't include all the info because some of it confused me.

Sounds like a lock for chapter7 to me.

[Mom2two]

Well we met with the lawyer and decided to start the proceedings. We didn't have a choice. DH only worked 3 out of 6 days last week and I don't have enough to pay the bills.

How did you all pay your lawyers? They won't file until they're paid in full. I guess we'll just have to use what we would have paid on the minimum payments and put it toward the payment. It may take a month or two.

BTW the lawyer was impressed with how much I knew and the questions I asked. Thanks everyone.

[lrprn]

I've been draining my IRA to keep up with my minimums. If I'm contemplating Ch 7, I guess I've been doing the wrong thing then? Have yet to consult an atty but month by month goes by and it's getting clearer and clearer I'm not going to make it out of this debt. :/

If there's even a chance you are going to have to file, then you need to immediately STOP taking money from your IRA!!

If you think you are going to have to file (and the fact you are currently draining your IRA to make monthly cc and other payments is a good sign you need to seriously consider it), then it's time to set up 3-4 free initial consultations with experienced bk lawyers in your area and find out where you stand.

If after meeting with the lawyers, you are sure you need to file, then that's when you stop making payments on your non-secured debts and start setting it aside to pay your chosen lawyer to file your bankruptcy.

[AngelinaCat]

Locked at Original Poster's request.