New Here - Assets Question for Ch. 7 liquidation

[Mom2two]

I posted this on another board before I saw this one. I'm sure this is where this question belongs. Sorry about the double posting.

We're seeing a bk lawyer Wednesday to get info about filing. I think we qualify for a chapter 7 due to being a family of 4 with 70,000 in credit card debt and an income of less than 90,000 a year.

The question I have is about the assets. We rent, don't really own anything good except my wedding and engagement rings, a big screen tv and a restored car that DH and DS have been working on for 6 years.

The car is not registered and has no title so my question is, is it an asset we have to mention? It would be worth around $15,000 if it were running but right now the engine is out of it.

DH is scared to death to file because this is his and DS's baby.

Thanks everyone.

[bkmaggster]

I posted this on another board before I saw this one. I'm sure this is where this question belongs. Sorry about the double posting.

We're seeing a bk lawyer Wednesday to get info about filing. I think we qualify for a chapter 7 due to being a family of 4 with 70,000 in credit card debt and an income of less than 90,000 a year.

The question I have is about the assets. We rent, don't really own anything good except my wedding and engagement rings, a big screen tv and a restored car that DH and DS have been working on for 6 years.

The car is not registered and has no title so my question is, is it an asset we have to mention? It would be worth around $15,000 if it were running but right now the engine is out of it.

DH is scared to death to file because this is his and DS's baby.

Thanks everyone.

Remember, assets are not valued at what they are worth to you. They are valued at what the trustee can get for a quick sale. A car with no engine sounds pretty worthless to me.

I doubt anyone here is going to tell you not to report an asset, as that is fraud. You have to list everything. Your underwear. Your wedding rings. That car. Even your pets.

Seriously, though - I doubt the car is worth more than you can exempt for it.

[music12]

you mean DH and DS have been restoring a car for 6 years? is it a hobby? are they licensed somehow? is there any intention of having it run in the future? has it been running at any point in time over the past 6 years?

i am asking all those questions because if it has not been running for 6 years then it's a "car" only to your DH and DS, but nobody else would consider it a car. an "automobile" is:

"a passenger vehicle designed for operation on ordinary roads and typically having four wheels and a gasoline or diesel internal-combustion engine." (dictionary.com)

so you can report it as an "asset" but not a car/automobile; just a blob of metal stuff in the shape of a car that's a hobby and not used to get from one place to another.

also, i think there is some kind of (federal) exemption for pieces of art created by the debtor/debtor's family. this could be something like that.

[Mom2two]

It's not a street car, it's a show car and it has been driven on a dragracing track in the past year. The engine has been removed for repairs but the engine is on the ground in the garage next to the car.

It is a hobby but DH uses his tools to work on our own cars as well (changing the brakes, changing fluids, fixing engine parts etc.) Most of his tools were handed down by his father and grandfather. Some were gifts over the years from me.

Is there a detailed list someplace of things that are considered assets?

We have old furniture bought from a dent and ding place. We have one big screen tv that was a family gift two years ago. This computer which is around 7 years old. My engagement ring. The kids have tv's, electronics and computers but they belong to them and then all DH's tools, the "show" car (which if you put the engine in it would run but it's not street legal) and an old beat-up mustang DH bought for DS that he uses to get to school and work and back. It's DS's car but I guess it's in DH's name. It's a piece of junk they picked up for $1,000.

[Mom2two]

I also forgot to mention that we have the two cars we drive. DH has a 2001 pickup that's rusting apart and I have a 1999 Ford Explorer that I still owe on (bought used) but will be paid off in May. My truck is a real piece of work held together in places with duct tape.

We have pets but I wouldn't consider them an asset. I'd consider them eating and pooping machines that create more work for me. LOL.

[jribe]

be very careful about the restored car. If your husband works on it in the garage - and your neighbors or anyone else knows you have it; please don't try to hide it.

There are ways that trustees find out about these things- registered or not.

Just list it; and avoid any other hassles.

I don't believe you mentioned the state you're in?

Each state has exemptions for different categories, and a wildcard as well as some states you can used the unused homestead exemption (since you rent).

Also - have you done the means test? You can't just assume that since you have 70k and debt and 90k in income that you qualify.

It's about disposable (allowable) income. It doesn't mean that if you spend all your money every month you qualify either; somethings you can't deduct the full amount you spend, or they may be considered a "luxury" in your district.

Please look into this. Or ask.

Good luck

[Mom2two]

I live in MA and I think there is something called a wild card? I just read it on someone else's post so I haven't looked into this yet. I think they said it was $20,000.

DH makes less than the mean income for our state that's why we thought chapter 7. We see the lawyer for our free consultation on Wednesday.

Most of our credit cards went up in interest and not by a little either and after trying to negotiate with them only one would decrease the interest rate to 0% for 8 months. I was able to catch a couple before they went up and chose to "opt" out and close the accounts.

We still can only pay the minimum due. We're paying approximately $1200 per month in minimum credit card payments now.

I've been reading this site and have so much more to read but I'm at information overload right now. Everyone here is so nice and very helpful. I just need to organize my thoughts and try to process everything while trying to keep DH calm.

[Mom2two]

Ok so now I don't know what to do. DH and I got into a huge fight tonight and he started throwing the past in my face. YOU YOU YOU YOU decided we would rent when we got married instead of buying a house. YOU YOU YOU decided to get pregnant the second year we were married. YOU YOU YOU decided to quit work and stay home because daycare was too expensive so we couldn't afford to buy a house. If we had a house we would have been able to refinance and get rid of our debt.

Me? We decided these things together. All of them. He wouldn't listen to me and stormed off mad. Right in front of the kids.

He forgets that together we decided not to buy a place right then but instead we were going to save. We decided to start our family, I was going to work and my SAHMother was going to watch our baby for $50 a week so we could continue to save money. My mother died just before I gave birth. Daycare for an infant was $12 more than I made a week. Together we decided I stay home. Actually if I remember correctly DH stated he refused to have a stranger raise our child. So, here we were very young with a baby and only one income. This is where our debt started .... 20 years ago. I did home daycare and when the kids were in school I worked part time. He got laid off from his job of 15 years and floundered between jobs for the next 4 or 5 years. Again we relied on credit cards to survive. If we owned a house we would have lost it years ago. We've had our heads just barely above water for almost 20 years now. I'm tired. I don't need DH pointing his finger shouting YOU YOU YOU.

Maybe we should be seeing a divorce lawyer instead of a bankruptcy lawyer.

He's so scared to death about losing this car that he said he may not go to the meeting. He will just stop paying the credit cards and take his chances. Right now we are not delinquent and have been scraping by to pay them on time. He won't even listen when I tell him the cc companies can come and take everything away that BK will protect us. He doesn't get it. He won't listen. My heart is hurting.

[Chowder]

you mean DH and DS have been restoring a car for 6 years? is it a hobby? are they licensed somehow? is there any intention of having it run in the future? has it been running at any point in time over the past 6 years?

i am asking all those questions because if it has not been running for 6 years then it's a "car" only to your DH and DS, but nobody else would consider it a car. an "automobile" is:

"a passenger vehicle designed for operation on ordinary roads and typically having four wheels and a gasoline or diesel internal-combustion engine." (dictionary.com)

so you can report it as an "asset" but not a car/automobile; just a blob of metal stuff in the shape of a car that's a hobby and not used to get from one place to another.

also, i think there is some kind of (federal) exemption for pieces of art created by the debtor/debtor's family. this could be something like that.

........man, you are just killing me. I just laughed so hard I spilled my drink.

[eventsdj]

you and hubby need to be on the same page. Our bankruptcy is mostly my fault (wife). I have been in charge of the money, and didn't spend it too wisely. My husbands only fault was turning a blind eye and not knowing what the heck was going on financially.
Until the u know what hit the fan, and it came down to mortgage, or bills. Well, my family needs to come first, so we met with our lawyer.
Convince him to at least go meet with the lawyer, It should put his mind at ease a little, ours did.
You don't have to decided anything today!
Good luck!

[TBLTZ]

Ok so now I don't know what to do. DH and I got into a huge fight tonight and he started throwing the past in my face. YOU YOU YOU YOU decided we would rent when we got married instead of buying a house. YOU YOU YOU decided to get pregnant the second year we were married. YOU YOU YOU decided to quit work and stay home because daycare was too expensive so we couldn't afford to buy a house. If we had a house we would have been able to refinance and get rid of our debt.

Me? We decided these things together. All of them. He wouldn't listen to me and stormed off mad. Right in front of the kids.

He forgets that together we decided not to buy a place right then but instead we were going to save. We decided to start our family, I was going to work and my SAHMother was going to watch our baby for $50 a week so we could continue to save money. My mother died just before I gave birth. Daycare for an infant was $12 more than I made a week. Together we decided I stay home. Actually if I remember correctly DH stated he refused to have a stranger raise our child. So, here we were very young with a baby and only one income. This is where our debt started .... 20 years ago. I did home daycare and when the kids were in school I worked part time. He got laid off from his job of 15 years and floundered between jobs for the next 4 or 5 years. Again we relied on credit cards to survive. If we owned a house we would have lost it years ago. We've had our heads just barely above water for almost 20 years now. I'm tired. I don't need DH pointing his finger shouting YOU YOU YOU.

Maybe we should be seeing a divorce lawyer instead of a bankruptcy lawyer.

He's so scared to death about losing this car that he said he may not go to the meeting. He will just stop paying the credit cards and take his chances. Right now we are not delinquent and have been scraping by to pay them on time. He won't even listen when I tell him the cc companies can come and take everything away that BK will protect us. He doesn't get it. He won't listen. My heart is hurting.

First. Everyone has some types of money problems. If you don't own a house and are under the median income you are a pefect chapter 7 case. You file and 90 days later you are free from credit card debit and medical bills and loans. If you only had 3 three cars you can easily claim these as your exemptions. When you file bk they can't take everything single thing you own. Most people get to keep all their stuff.

Keep reading on this board and you will get all the information that you need. Educate your self and you can explain to your husband the details. Also go see a lawyer 1st consults are free. This will make you feel better.

[Mom2two]

I've read and tried to explain to him but he's so stubborn. We have a free consultation tomorrow late afternoon but now he's signed up for work in the afternoon. He always works early morning, when there is work and is always out of work by 4 at the latest. So I reminded him of our appt. and his reply was "what, are you NOW saying you want me to NOT go to work? I'll meet you there if I can, if not, at least I get a days pay." I reminded him that I won't be able to go myself because my DS will have my car to pick his sister up at school (his car isn't working) and all this has been carefully scheduled. So he told me to cancel and make another appt. I can't win. If I have to take a bus I'll keep that appt.

I'm scheduling a second free consultation with another lawyer as well. I always think a second opinion is a good idea.

[music12]

women are often more emotionally strong than men. he is probably feeling like a failure and it makes him feel better to accuse you, because deep down he knows it's at least as much his fault as yours. he can't handle it. he shouldn't be accusing you, that's for sure. he may need some time and/or psychological help.

[Mom2two]

I just remembered he has a retirement thing through his employer. It's done through a company that does stocks. Everyone has stocks and this will end up as their retirement when the time comes. With the stocks going down it went down by thousands but it's climbing again. I'm not sure how much he has in there right now. Would this be listed as well? Would this be taken from us if we filed?

Is there a list or form someplace that I can download so I can get an idea of what is considered an asset so I can figure out what we have as assets?

I'm sure the cat isn't considered an asset although they can have him if they want. He needs surgery and we can't possibly afford that right now.

[eddiep]

Sorry, sounds like you have a lot of stress right now, and hubby is making it worse! This is the worst part, I promise it will get easier. I know you must be scared, we all were when we were just starting this process, and this includes hubby. Keep a positive outlook, it is contagious. Go to www.legalconsumer.com you will be able to find the exemption amounts for your state. We are actually neighbors, I'm from NH! In MA you can take the federal exemptions option which is very generous, which is what we did. We were able to save EVERYTHING. Nothing by its self was worth alot but we saved three cars, one harley davidson, one truck, one boat, one dirtbike, $20k from a pending personal injury lawsuit, one 4 wheeler and our home and everything in it. You can find the value of your cars from www.kbb.com and you may have to go to www.nada.com to find the value of the restoration project. Once you figure out what you can exempt and what the resale value is of your assets you will feel more positive about this and so will hubby. The resale value of the house stuff... computers, tv, clothes, furniture etc can be found at www.salvationarmy.com or www.goodwill.com