Question regarding 2nd part of Means Test

[baxtersmom]

Hi all,
We are in the process of filing Chapter 7 (in MI). Our income is about 3,500 a year higher that the median income for our area.
Our lawyer has suggested that we concentrate on lowering our income during the next few months.
In doing the second part of the means test online, it appears to me that we should qualify that way.
I am going to talk to our lawyer tomorrow, but am wondering if anyone can tell me what their experiences were using the second portion of the means test to qualify if their income was too high. Is it difficult? Would it make more sense to just lower income. I hate to do this if its not neccessary - I would much rather get it over with now.
thanks!

[lifelesson]

did you rememebr all your bills/expenses like water, gas and taxes? school fees and such. misc spending for the thing the kids need. Shoes clothes and such.

[baxtersmom]

Hi Lifelesson,
I think I included all the expenses. It shows that we DO qualify using the second part of the means test when I did one of the ones available online. Our attorney just encouraged us to lower our income & didn't really seem at all interested in checking to see if we could qualify using the second part of the means test.

This makes me wonder if there is a reason for that? any ideas? I'm basically looking for anyones experiences from using the second portion of the means test to qualify if their income was too high. thanks!

[leena]

Hi Lifelesson,
I think I included all the expenses. It shows that we DO qualify using the second part of the means test when I did one of the ones available online. Our attorney just encouraged us to lower our income & didn't really seem at all interested in checking to see if we could qualify using the second part of the means test.

This makes me wonder if there is a reason for that? any ideas? I'm basically looking for anyones experiences from using the second portion of the means test to qualify if their income was too high. thanks!

You could consult with another attorney or two. usually the consults are free or very low cost. Many BK attorneys do not like trying to put above median filers in Chapter 7's. It is more work for them, and in some districts trustees are particularly fussy about expense documentation on above median filers. I am a below median filer, but a good friend went through a complex above median chapter 7 case and she spoke with four attorneys before she found one who was willing to work on a 7 with her. She got her 7 and her discharge and you likely can, too if you have the right attorney and legit expenses.

However, I have to ask might it not just be easier to do as your current attorney suggests and work on "reducing your income" and filing in such a way that mays that work out with the 6 month lookback? If you are just a bit over income now and this is a possible thing for you, it might be a whole lot easier.

[lifelesson]

baxtersmom-
our attorney made us fill in all the lines. ( I really don't know the reason or rhyme)
We are close to the limit as a fam of 5.
the attorney we are using is one who also does trustee work for the court. she came with lots of refferrals.
I know we had an error on our J in the medical expense line and had to file an adjusted J. that was right after our 341 hearing 8/24. We haven't heard about any problems as of now so I'm praying we're in the clear and all.


I wish you luck.

[ska]

We were over the median in our area by $28k. Our attorney had us go through our expenses thouroughly. We would have lengthy conversations about my expenses and she would pick-up on something and would have me collect back-up.

I agree with 'leena' that you might want to consider consulting with another attorney. There are many people that are over the median that pass the means test.

Good luck!

[liz417]

I was over the median by $21k. My 1st attorney (see my signature) was going to file a chapter 13 for me because he said that's all I qualified for (I believed him because I didn't know any better at the time), I continued to look for another attorney in that years time. I had to interview 6 attorneys before I found one that would even CONSIDERED a ch 7 for me. I agree with the others, set up a few more free consults....

Good Luck!

[baxtersmom]

Thank you all so much for your advice. I think I will start talking to some other attorneys and see if I can find one who doesn't mind doing a little more work. I went with the first one I talked to & realize now that I made a big mistake.

[liz417]

Thank you all so much for your advice. I think I will start talking to some other attorneys and see if I can find one who doesn't mind doing a little more work. I went with the first one I talked to & realize now that I made a big mistake.

Good idea....unfortunately (and fortunately), I found this site AFTER I retained my 1st attorney! I'm glad it took me a year to pay the 1st attorney, meanwhile, I read everything I could on this site and realized what a BIG mistake I had made Cut your losses now, some attorneys don't want the extra "fight" or the extra "work" or they just plain what the extra $$ from a ch 13 (mine was going to cost $4k).

[ska]

Good idea....unfortunately (and fortunately), I found this site AFTER I retained my 1st attorney! I'm glad it took me a year to pay the 1st attorney, meanwhile, I read everything I could on this site and realized what a BIG mistake I had made Cut your losses now, some attorneys don't want the extra "fight" or the extra "work" or they just plain what the extra $$ from a ch 13 (mine was going to cost $4k).

I was lucky enough to find this site before I found an attorney, and my attorney was amazed at how much I knew about the BK process. It is helpful to know a little bit of information, I think it helps the attorney, too.

baxtersmom, what state do you live in? I had a great attorney! I can recommend her if you are in Orange County, CA!

[baxtersmom]

I am definently getting the feeling from my current lawyer that they only want to do a chapter 7 if the income is below the median.

If I could figure out a way to pull that off, I would probably be fine with it too.

I just can't figure out how we could make any less money than we currently are & keep our mortgage current and pay the basic bills. It simply isn't possible.

[baxtersmom]

thanks ska - but I'm in Michigan. Wish I were in CA!

[baxtersmom]

I just wanted to post an update to my situation.

I put the following ad on Craigslist: I am looking for suggestions for a good bankruptcy lawyer. My income is over the median amount, so I am hoping to find a good attorney who will take the time to go through the expense amounts to make it work. Anyone who has gone through this mess and been lucky enough to find a lawyer who doesn't mind doing a little extra work?

I received a few responses, some recommendations on who NOT to go to. I went this morning and met with one of the lawyers that was highly recommended. He was fabulous! He went through every single line & asked me a million questions & when he was done he told me it was a good thing I went with my instincts - because we absolutely qualify for a chapter 7 based on our expenses. I remember seeing other people talk about warm fuzzy feelings when they met the right lawyer & that is exactly how I feel! I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted from my shoulders. (I am still amazed at how much wrong information the other lawyer had given me!!!)

thanks everyone for your suggestions - this is such a great forum.
Best of luck to all of you!

[liz417]

Wow!!! What great news!!! I'm glad you trusted your instincts and continued looking for an attorney.