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Son and his family moved in with us - include his income?

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    Son and his family moved in with us - include his income?

    Well figured it was time to start posting some questions in regards to my situation. But first just wanted to express appreciation for this forum. I've been mostly lurking since I found the forum a couple of weeks ago and I've learned a great deal in that time. I also commend the members here. I can imagine how difficult it is to post your personal stories all for the benefit of others. It is a very brave thing to do, and quite admirable.

    I have approx 27k in debt that comes to almost $800 a month. Mortgage of $1200 and car of $170 a month with two years left. My full time and wife's part time brings in about $3300 a month. Although my job is very secure, my health won't allow me to work overtime to catch up on bills like I used to in the past. With the other normal monthly expenses it seems there is very little left over each month. But we've continued to manage to stay out of trouble thus far, usually at the expense of frugality. The kicker is my son and his wife and daughter had to move in with us early last year because of financial difficulty. We are so happy to have them with us mainly because we get to see our granddaughter all the time now. But make no mistake, this has put a big burden on us financially. My son has a full time job but it goes almost all to his debt. He does try to give us something now and then but I've told him to not worry about it and focus on getting himself and his family back on their feet. Now we've learned they have another baby on the way. So, they may be with us a little while longer. Also, my wife may have to quit her part-time job to help our daughter in law.

    Up until a few weeks ago I had not even considered BK. But now I am in research mode gathering all my information together before I make an appt with a BK attorney. My question is, do I count my son and his family as dependants? And if so, do I include his pay as income (even though I seldom receive anything from him)? I'm really confused about that point..the obvious answer would seem to be yes, include his income. But then wouldn't I have to also include HIS debt? I'm sure the attorney will have a definitive answer, but just thought I'd ask here first.

    Also, my wife and I charged a $1500 tv at Walmart and I charged a $1400 new computer from an online vendor all about two months ago. I know, stupid. It had been so long since we'd been able to splurge like that, we had the credit, so why not? Plus we really needed those two things at the time - old tv suddenly went out on us and my computer was in need of an upgrade so I bought a new one. We were current on all debt and BK wasn't even on my radar. Well you know what they say about hindsight..

    I know about the 90 day thing. These would obviously fall into the assets category. And I am willing to part with them. But just wondering how badly does that reflect on my situation if I want to file?

    My apologies this is so long. I'll stop here and invite all comments, good or bad. And thanks!

    #2
    There are plenty of folks that will say the entire household income needs to be included. When I filed I was told to NOT include my MILs income.

    BTW NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER LET YOUR MOTHER IN LAW MOVE IN!!!!!
    No Asset 7 closed 11/09

    Comment


      #3
      Since it looks like your son and his family will be in the household for a long time to come, everyone's gross income for the prior six full calendar months before filing (yours, your wife's, your son's, and his wife's) will be added to your Means Test. However, any portion of your son's and his wife's income that does *not* go toward running your household - from your comments it sounds like he and his wife aren't contributing very much - will be subtracted out later in the forms.

      Definitely wait until the TV and computer charges have aged at least 90 days. Also make a few token payments towards them before you file as well. Take a look at the agreement - my guess is that the TV and computer will be considered secured assets. Since the purchase is new, the companies may come after them as secured assets and they may try to lift your automatic stay after filing to get them back.

      Keep in mind that chances are they really don't want the items back - they want to be paid for them. Work with your lawyer - chances are you will not have to pay for them nor return them. Even if the cards fall that you could lose one or both and you really want to keep them, a payment option can often be arranged through your lawyer.
      I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

      06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
      06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
      07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
      10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
      01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
      09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
      06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
      08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

      10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
      Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by lrprn View Post
        Since it looks like your son and his family will be in the household for a long time to come, everyone's gross income for the prior six full calendar months before filing (yours, your wife's, your son's, and his wife's) will be added to your Means Test. However, any portion of your son's and his wife's income that does *not* go toward running your household - from your comments it sounds like he and his wife aren't contributing very much - will be subtracted out later in the forms.

        Definitely wait until the TV and computer charges have aged at least 90 days. Also make a few token payments towards them before you file as well. Take a look at the agreement - my guess is that the TV and computer will be considered secured assets. Since the purchase is new, the companies may come after them as secured assets and they may try to lift your automatic stay after filing to get them back.

        Keep in mind that chances are they really don't want the items back - they want to be paid for them. Work with your lawyer - chances are you will not have to pay for them nor return them. Even if the cards fall that you could lose one or both and you really want to keep them, a payment option can often be arranged through your lawyer.
        I will probably wait until November or December to file then. I am meeting with an attorney next week and, if things look good, will probably retain him. Unfortunately, I've just fallen past 30 days with one creditor due to the high balance/monthly payment. Just wondering how my attorney will advise me to handle that one creditor while I continue paying on the others.

        Thanks for your response!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by chowder View Post
          btw never, never, never, never, never let your mother in law move in!!!!!
          :d
          My comments are solely based on my opinion. The information and links that I have
          posted are provided solely for informational purposes, and do not constitute legal advice

          Comment


            #6
            the attorney will likely advise you to stop paying on all cards. If it was a regular CC (not a store card) and you've been making payments until now- i wouldn't worry about it. If you're not filing for another few months anyway.

            You would need to include your son and his income- but you also get to say you're a family of 5 for your own expenses- which will likely help you out.

            good luck
            Filed Pro Se: 10/16/2009
            341 Scheduled: 11/23/2009
            Last Day for Objections: 1/22/2010
            Discharged: 1/28/2010

            Comment


              #7
              My neice and her two kids live with me and contribute basically nothing, which is ok. Lawyer did not even ask anything about them or include them in anything.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jribe View Post
                the attorney will likely advise you to stop paying on all cards. If it was a regular CC (not a store card) and you've been making payments until now- i wouldn't worry about it. If you're not filing for another few months anyway.

                You would need to include your son and his income- but you also get to say you're a family of 5 for your own expenses- which will likely help you out.

                good luck
                Hi. Unfortunately, it was a Walmart card...so does that automatically make the tv a secured assett? Like I said earlier, and aside from Lrprn's suggestions above, I don't mind parting with the tv. Oh, and I just checked my statement for that month and it wasn't $1500 like I stated earlier, it was $900. Not sure why I thought the tv was $1500.

                As far as my son's income, does the means test measure the total income before or after expenses?

                Originally posted by pookieny View Post
                My neice and her two kids live with me and contribute basically nothing, which is ok. Lawyer did not even ask anything about them or include them in anything.
                So, do you think it's better if I just not mention my son and his family? I thought about this and wondered if including his income might overly complicate my case? I only mention it here because it has bearing on why we're financially in trouble now.

                Thanks for the input!

                Comment

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