Bankruptcy fraud? Opinions please.

[rlcinjustice]

are you a creditor? if so, it may be worth it for you to speak up. i don't know if creditors can ask the court to reopen the case or if they have to go through the trustee (certainly it would be better if it's the trustee the asks to reopen). get documents from their motion to get the child support and documents showing they are now collecting, and give them to the trustee/court.

if you are not a creditor, what's your relationship to these debtors?

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No, I'm not a creditor, nor affiliated with any legal agency. I'd rather just say I'm an informed 'friend' who's not sure what to do with this information.

Yes, I have those documents, and a few other interesting files. I'll contact the Trustee tommorow and see what they think (anonymously, w/o case number).

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The amount 'reasonable and necessary' really isn't the issue here, is it?

That she did not disclose certain substantial incomes/assets, in which she had a legal right to collect and then did after discharge, wouldn't concealment be the real issue here?

[Chowder]

Wife of ex-husband/sour grapes

Lookin that way...

[bkmaggster]

In the end, isn't trying to get the BK dismissed (apparently the OP's goal) really just going to damage the children involved? The child support will still be owed, but if the case is dismissed the child support will now go to creditors.

I'd say keep your nose out of things which are none of your business, because I think it will bring you more peace.

*shrug*

[music12]

I'm putting this on a T-shirt!

ok! but if you start selling the t-shirt, PM me so i can patent it first!

[music12]

justbroke, you are probably right about the surplusage issue, i think i misread your original argument... but anyway, at this point i am not very interested in saying anything more to help this particular OP because he seems to want to do something just to spite these people, and i would be very surprised if they didn't tell their attorney about this potential money and then followed his advice about how to report or not report it. with 'friends' like this, who needs enemies?

i'd rather people spend their energies on things that matter, which to me means, in the judicial system, working to remove judges and lawyers who lie, cheat, take bribes and screw the very system itself, and are an ongoing threat to society. these two debtors are done causing anybody any harm.

[justbroke]

I don't think, personally, the "child support" is in play, because... like what Trustee is going to take money from a child. Even if they didn't disclose it, it's still probably exempt anyhow, so there is no difference in outcome.

[music12]

well, if the child has turned 18 by now, it could be interesting... $175,000 accumulating at $1,000 a month means 175 months, that's 14.5 years...

[backtoschool]

justbroke, you are probably right about the surplusage issue, i think i misread your original argument... but anyway, at this point i am not very interested in saying anything more to help this particular OP because he seems to want to do something just to spite these people, and i would be very surprised if they didn't tell their attorney about this potential money and then followed his advice about how to report or not report it. with 'friends' like this, who needs enemies?

i'd rather people spend their energies on things that matter, which to me means, in the judicial system, working to remove judges and lawyers who lie, cheat, take bribes and screw the very system itself, and are an ongoing threat to society. these two debtors are done causing anybody any harm.

I totally agree. But by the same token, I do think that it is always best to report all guaranteed income in a bankruptcy case. Why mess things up?

[music12]

backtoschool, of course that's right! one should report everything. sometimes it's the lawyer who doesn't put it in there, though. every case is different.

[backtoschool]

backtoschool, of course that's right! one should report everything. sometimes it's the lawyer who doesn't put it in there, though. every case is different.

I agree. I have seen on this board some lawyers give some pretty scary advice (that is if the posters are understanding and quoting their lawyers correctly in their posts. )

From personal experience, I believe that if I had lied about even one penny of my formerly high income, I don't think I would have been concluded at my 341. I scheduled it all in my petition, in all its embarrassing glory. Trustees have seen it all, and they can tell when something doesn't add up.

[hereforinfo]

are you a creditor? if so, it may be worth it for you to speak up. i don't know if creditors can ask the court to reopen the case or if they have to go through the trustee (certainly it would be better if it's the trustee the asks to reopen). get documents from their motion to get the child support and documents showing they are now collecting, and give them to the trustee/court.

if you are not a creditor, what's your relationship to these debtors?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I'm not a creditor, nor affiliated with any legal agency. I'd rather just say I'm an informed 'friend' who's not sure what to do with this information.

Yes, I have those documents, and a few other interesting files. I'll contact the Trustee tommorow and see what they think (anonymously, w/o case number).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The amount 'reasonable and necessary' really isn't the issue here, is it?

That she did not disclose certain substantial incomes/assets, in which she had a legal right to collect and then did after discharge, wouldn't concealment be the real issue here?

I agree with you, the whole point is that she lied / didn't disclose it, not whether it would be exempt or not. I don't think the forms tell you to omit what you think is exempt, it's not for her to decide.

Please keep us posted!

[Chowder]

ok! but if you start selling the t-shirt, PM me so i can patent it first!

No. You would want a copyright.

And, I certainly will let you know when they start rolling off the press.

[music12]

No. You would want a copyright.

And, I certainly will let you know when they start rolling off the press.

oh, ok! isn't just writing (c) next to it enough to copyright it? or do you have to pay somebody a fee for it?

[Chowder]

[music12]

lovely! so it is already copyrighted just need some cutting and pasting to perfect the copyright i suppose!