Approaching discharge with questions

[betpie]

Well, I haven't posted in a while and before I knew it I'm just 9 days from discharge. I have some q uestions if anyone feels like humoring me some more .

I haven't heard anything from the court since filing and paying my fee. I think this is a good thing. Is it? And, will I get anything saying that discharge has happened and my case is closed?

I still haven't done my second round of credit counseling. I still have time, right? Is there a form I need to submit showing that I've completed it?


Thanks!

[shabam]

I still haven't done my second round of credit counseling. I still have time, right? Is there a form I need to submit showing that I've completed it?

The second credit counseling should have been completed within 45 days of the 341.

Do you have a pacer account? If so, log on and have a look at your case.

[whipster1]

You need the Debtor Education NOW. Take it online ASAP or you will screw up your case.

[betpie]

oh crap! Oh no! I can't believe I forgot about this!

Is my case going to be dismissed? I'm taking it online now, then what?

[shabam]

Betpie I don't want you to panic but this is bad news.

I would immediately log into pacer and check the status of your case.

[shabam]

I am not sure how it works for pro se. I am 'guessing' you have to submit it to the court you lodged your application at. However, since you missed the 45 days mark, the case may already be dismissed. Which will mean you have to file a motion to reopen it and pay a processing fee again.

[betpie]

Well I got onto PACER and saw that this was filed just a couple of days ago:

"It appearing a Certification of Completion of Instructional Course Concerning Financial Management was
not filed by the debtor within 45 days of the first date set for the meeting of creditors, now, therefore,
NOTICE IS GIVEN THAT, even if a debtor is otherwise eligible for a discharge, this case may still be
closed, upon completion of all case administration, WITHOUT entry of a Discharge Order for a
noncomplying debtor, and without further notice, UNLESS, within 15 days of the FILED date above, a
Certification of Completion of Instructional Course Concerning Financial Management on Official Form #23
is filed by the debtor(s) with the Clerk, U.S. Bankruptcy Court."

I think this means I just got really, really lucky.

[shabam]

45 days would have been Sunday, September 6, 2009.

You may very well be. You need to immediately take the certificate to the court.

[betpie]

The document I quoted had a file date of Sep 8, 2009. I'm listed as having been mailed a copy of the notice but it hasn't come yet. Not that it matters, because now that I know I'm filing the necessary paperwork first thing Monday morning.

Wow, I almost had a heart attack there!

[justbroke]

Yes, pro se debtor would need to file the certificate, along with Official Form 23, which is the Debtor's Certification of Completion of Instructional Course Concerning Financial Management. Make sure you file a copy of the certificate WITH the Form B23 (as listed int he prior sentence). It's very important that you file this certificate.

I have read some cases where the Judge would not let the debtor re-open the case to file the certificate. (Something about inexcusable negligent.) I have also read cases where creditors have objected to the case being re-opened as well for the certificate. Yes, that's HARSH... don't fall into this. Get this done! (Of course, these were extremes. Usually the case is re-opened to allow this. I also saw at least one case where the Judge waived the re-opening fee ($220) because the case was re-opened concerning the discharge. )

[shabam]

I hope they're lenient and you can scrape through. It's such a simple mistake but people do make it.

[bkmaggster]

Yes, pro se debtor would need to file the certificate, along with Official Form 23, which is the Debtor's Certification of Completion of Instructional Course Concerning Financial Management.

Wait, what? What is this form?

I handed in my certificates in person at the courthouse and the clerk didn't say anything about an additional form. On Pacer it shows that I filed the certificates.

I'm freaked out now - what form are you talking about?

[justbroke]

Wait, what? What is this form?

When did you hand in your certificate? I would check PACER to see if you received a a deficiency notice. There is an Official Form that -- as far as I nkow -- must be filed with the Certificate of Completion. It's known as Form B23.

I'm freaked out now - what form are you talking about?

Maybe it's not required in our District. I would call the Clerk on Monday and ask if Form B23 is required to be filed with the Certification of Financial Management Course completion.

[bkmaggster]

Justbroke,

Thanks for your quick reply. I went to PACER and everything looks ok for my case (8 days left whee!)

I double checked the notification they sent me, and here's what it says:

You are notified that, subject to limited exceptions, debtor(s) must complete an instructional course in personal financial management and file with the court an Official Form 23, Certification of Completion of a Course in Personal Financial Management OROR

etc, etc...

The bolding of the word "OR" is theirs. So in Western WA, it's certificate OR form.

PHEW.

[justbroke]

The bolding of the word "OR" is theirs. So in Western WA, it's certificate OR form.

I would double check. The rules clearly read "or", but I got a deficiency notice when I only filed the certificate by itself. My deficiency notice read...

Official Form 23 must accompany the certificate of completion of the required instructional course concerning personal financial management. Official Form 23 is available on the internet: http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/bank....html#official or may be obtained from the Clerks Office.

I'm just saying. I read the same thing as you and thought "OR" and filed my certificate, only to get a deficiency notice. Again, it might just be a "local rule" thing, but I would find out from the Clerk.