Pro Se Vs. Hire a Lawyer

[aljohnson007]

Just one more comment re trustees. In the time block for my 341, the same attorney had five cases in a row, mine being the last. She never even got up from her seat between cases I don't think that was just how it happened to be scheduled.

[MSbklawyer]

i agree that officially an attorney cannot pick the trustee. However, an attorney has a lot of experience with how the random system picks the trustee and can probably figure out the best time to file a petition to maximize the chances of getting a particular trustee.

I wish I had big-city problems like that. We have one whole trustee in this division of the district. Well, two actually. One for 7s. One for 13s. And they have enough time left over after being trustee to have a regular law practice.

[OnTheRocks]

I will be filing Pro Se due to costs and time, and mine being a simple no asset case. Just a few simple questions regarding filling in the "Claims" forms please.

What do I put in for "Husband, Wife, Joint, or Community"? I am single.

"Date Claim Was Incurred"? All are credit cards and a Dell acct.

What are the columns for "Contingent", "Unliquidated", and "Disputed" for?

"Amount of Claim"? Seems obvious, the debt outstanding day I file.

Should Dell be listed as a secured creditor?

Thank You
On The Rocks

[AngelinaCat]

I wish I had big-city problems like that. We have one whole trustee in this division of the district. Well, two actually. One for 7s. One for 13s. And they have enough time left over after being trustee to have a regular law practice.

With the economy the way it is going, Fairly soon I doubt they will have time for law practices.

We have an attorney here in our small town who is also a trustee--though we did not know that at the time. We could never get in. There was always a two month wait just for the initial consult. We went with an attorney in a larger nearby town. Long story there, but looking back, I wish we had waited for the local. But we were in so much pain, and had NOT found this forum....

[AngelinaCatHub]

At this time, and as we have learned, I would go pro se. That being said, it took a very difficult education to realize this. We were fortunate, that we had a Trustee who did not get us dismissed, and worked with the mistakes we made.

Most people do not have that "hind sight" we now have. I officially recommend getting legal counsel. Also, self educate with books and the Internet. At LEAST interview three lawyers and pick the "gut feeling" good one.

I do not ever expect to use what I have learned, much of it here, in bankruptcy.

I advise anyone to ask for a 'short course' from the new lawyer in what to expect. We knew NOTHING.

Remember there is a price to pay for a lawyer, but the reward is, "they are paid to worry for you". It is their responsibility to do right by you, the customer.

My official policy is get a lawyer. 'Hub

[justbroke]

I will be filing Pro Se due to costs and time, and mine being a simple no asset case. Just a few simple questions regarding filling in the "Claims" forms please.

Do you have the NoLo Press book on Chapter 7? If not, I highly suggest you get that, because from the questions below, it doesn't appear you are using any guidebook to file. This is really going to hurt you in the end.

What do I put in for "Husband, Wife, Joint, or Community"? I am single.

Where? What "claims" form? If you're talking about the Schedules, and specifically Schedules D through F, you would put nothing, because you're not a husband, a wife, there's not two of you, and you are not married and live in a community property state (community).

"Date Claim Was Incurred"? All are credit cards and a Dell acct.

What date did you incur the debt? Was it January, 2005... or January 2009???

What are the columns for "Contingent", "Unliquidated", and "Disputed" for?

For listing whether a claim is contingent upon an outcome from something else (contingent), is not an actual value because the value can't be determined at this time (unliquidated), or you don't agree with the amount (disputed).

"Amount of Claim"? Seems obvious, the debt outstanding day I file.

Yep.

Should Dell be listed as a secured creditor?

It doesn't really matter, but they are probably secured.

[Chowder]

I have to disagree with this statement. The selection process for Trustees is 'random draw'. Whoever has the lightest case-load, or is 'next-in-line' in the rotation process, is who you will get. The attorney has no say in the matter.

And I have to disagree with yours.

My Attorney told me of a little slight of hand he uses to get the Trustee he wants. It certainly has worked in my case. **knocking on wood**

Which further exemplifies my point of getting a savvy Attorney in your District.

[Chowder]

i agree that officially an attorney cannot pick the trustee. However, an attorney has a lot of experience with how the random system picks the trustee and can probably figure out the best time to file a petition to maximize the chances of getting a particular trustee.

Without question.

[shabam]

And I have to disagree with yours.

My Attorney told me of a little slight of hand he uses to get the Trustee he wants. It certainly has worked in my case. **knocking on wood**

Which further exemplifies my point of getting a savvy Attorney in your District.

The attorney would have to be guessing or playing the odds. The allocation of a trustee is random in most states.

[Chowder]

The attorney would have to be guessing or playing the odds. The allocation of a trustee is random in most states.

Sounds like you're guessing.

[justbroke]

As to how a Trustee is selected, it may be different amongst the Districts/States. However, in most States -- especially in larger Districts -- the Trustee is selected based on an algorithm (round-robin or least load or random). In my District, the computer not only randomly picks the Trustee, but also sets the 341 Meeting as soon as you file.

As for how the rogue States do it, North Carolina and Alabama, one would wonder if they have any pattern for the Trustee. I'm willing to believe, also, that a well connected attorney could call the clerk's office and have their favorite Trustee assigned as well.

If you don't believe what I wrote about randomness, here's the official word from the National Association of Bankruptcy Trustees. They are specifically worried about exactly what Chowder writes... and that is "Trustee shopping".

The United States Trustee usually institutes a program at the local level which insures that a Panel Trustee is selected on a random basis to handle all Chapter 7 bankruptcy cases. The Panel Trustee is selected at random to insure that debtors or their attorneys do not "trustee shop"for a specific Panel Trustee. It also assures a Panel Trustee that he/she has an equal chance to get appointed to a case that may have significant assets to administer. If the Panel Trustee has a conflict in a specific case, he/she may withdraw by giving notice to the United State Trustee. Panel Trustee case loads vary between several hundred cases a year to several thousand depending on the location of the Panel Trustee.

Source: National Association of Bankruptcy Trustees (NABT)

[killinstinct]

I think most of us here are totally intellegent, capable people and could figure out the 'mechanics' of BK pretty well. That being said, I would argue to HIRE AN ATTORNEY!!

My chief reason for doing so is that we all know there's the way things work on paper, and the way things work in the real world. A good attorney knows the local district, the trustees, the judges, and knows what to expect and how to prepare. As a pro-se you're coming into this blind.

I would only go pro-se if I had absolutely no way of paying for an attorney. I don't think it's a good way to try and safe a few bucks.

[ForumReader]

The attorney would have to be guessing or playing the odds. The allocation of a trustee is random in most states.

That is exactly what the paralegal told me when I had the pre 341 meeting with the attorney. The paralegal said in most cases they don't choose a trustee to assign, it is random. I then asked the attorney if he knew anything about this trustee who will be at my 341 and he said yes, said that the trustee is very slow so since my meeting is at 3 pm that means I probably will be called at 4 pm In regard to the OP's thread topic, the paralegal said my case is very straightforward that he could file himself. However he said it is always recommended to hire an attorney because one never knows how aggressive creditors would go after a person if filed pro se. For me personally, I am glad I hired an attorney because of BoA! once again

[MSbklawyer]

Do you have the NoLo Press book on Chapter 7? If not, I highly suggest you get that, because from the questions below, it doesn't appear you are using any guidebook to file. This is really going to hurt you in the end.

JB is right on the money. If you have to ask: "what goes where in which schedules?", then you're not ready to file a case pro se. Not even a simple one. Hit the books or hire a lawyer. That's not meant to be critical of your lack of knowledge, understand, but just as friendly advice that you can really be your own worst enemy if you try to do this without a good understanding of the process.

[MSbklawyer]

I would only go pro-se if I had absolutely no way of paying for an attorney. I don't think it's a good way to try and safe a few bucks.

I would agree, but would go further to say that if you have no way of paying the attorney, FIND A WAY. Make a way. Offer to mow his grass all summer or babysit for him or something.

Normally (not always, but normally), if a person is so truly destitute that they can't, even with the help of family and friends, come up with enough to pay an attorney for a bankruptcy, they really don't need a bankruptcy anyway.

In the few cases I have seen where a person who could not afford to pay but genuinelypro bono. (You want to see a GRUMPY chapter 13 trustee? Propose a zero payment chapter 13 plan.)

Long story short, there is a way, it's worth it, and you just need to find it.