Unemployment vs Means Test

[momisery]

justbroke. we are using an attorney and he did put the 1081.00 into expenses but commented that they would fight him on it? And in MO they must count unemployment because he counted it in the means test. It seems to me that if they are going to have a FEDERAL change to BK laws that it should pretty much be fair across the board. I wonder how they can consider this as federal court, and then slant it to really hurt you in some states compare to others. Like the deductions here in MO are so small, 6000.00 for our cars for two people. Geesh!

So you think we can use the 1081.00? I sure hope so, we are so close. Hubby has been on unemployment for almost a year now. He works commission jobs so we deducated his expenses from the unemployment that he draws and the little bit of income that he has made that offset his unemployment. He has extended and I think that in 4-5 weeks he will receive nothing more, the end of his benefits. I guess we should have waited to file, but we were afraid they would kick us to the curb for not paying for going on 3 months to BOA for our home here in MO.

[justbroke]

jLike the deductions here in MO are so small, 6000.00 for our cars for two people.

Florida is $1,000 for a car. For the most part, the exemptions come from your State, and not the federal government (State's get to choose whether to use the Federal or State exemptions). Also, State non-bankruptcy laws do affect the Federal Bankruptcy laws, so you will get some differences because of the State.

So you think we can use the 1081.00? I sure hope so, we are so close.

It just depends on what the local rules and customs are. If the unemployment is ending in several weeks, you just use that as your rebuttal for any problems the US Trustee may have.

[backtoschool]

My unemployment insurance was counted as income on the means test in Michigan.

[enginerd]

I'm in michigan too. My wife's unemployment will run out in the next week or two. We're not going to apply for the extension. Wait a few months and then file. Do you see any problems with that?

[backtoschool]

I'm in michigan too. My wife's unemployment will run out in the next week or two. We're not going to apply for the extension. Wait a few months and then file. Do you see any problems with that?

I think if you wait a few months and file that will work out perfectly.

The Eastern and Western Michigan districts definitely count unemployment insurance as income on the means test.

[shtaar4]

I think if you wait a few months and file that will work out perfectly.

The Eastern and Western Michigan districts definitely count unemployment insurance as income on the means test.

If so, what does this mean? It is under Public benefits exemption.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bcuy332fikjf3t55g3sgf155))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-421-30

[justbroke]

If so, what does this mean? It is under Public benefits exemption.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(bcu...ame=mcl-421-30

Look at what it is telling you...

... in case of bankruptcy, the benefits shall not pass to or through any trustees or other persons acting on behalf of creditors

This just means that it can't be used to pay creditors. It says nothing about it being used as an indication of income.

11 USC 101 defines "current monthly income" as money received from all sources regardless of whether it is taxable.

[MSbklawyer]

There are arguments that Unemployment Income is not part of the Social Security Act or somesuch. There a camps that say it is income and camps that say it isn't. This seems to be District specific. (There's a recent Massachusetts ruling that says it is not income because it's part of the SSA.)

Yeah, the bk courts are all over the place with it. Neither our distrct (So. Dist. Miss.) nor our circuit (5th) have decided the issue yet.

Your attorney can have you list it as a SSA benefit and then just wait for the Trustee to object to it. Then the Trustee would need to prove that it's not.

Are you sure you're not a bk lawyer JB? That's just what we do in these sorts of cases. Let the trustee object. Look at his objection and supporting rationale. Then decide wheter to really fight it or not.

If you're in the Fifth Circuit as I am, it's nice to go down to New Orleans and argue. The courthouse is near the French Quarter. Drink one of those French Quarter breakfast Bloody Marys and shuffle on over there and argue you case.

Pelican has been dropping hints that she might want to accompany me on my next trip over to the Big Easy. But you watch, she'll pop in here and deny it.

There are two cases which say that UI is an SSA benefit as defined in the Bankruptcy Code are In re Munger, 370 B.R. 21 (Bankr.D.Mass. 2007), and In re Sorrell, 359 B.R. 167 (Bankr.S.D.Ohio 2007).

Here's a case that determined that it is NOT an SSA benefit, In re Baden, 2008 WL 4905500 (Bkrtcy.M.D.Pa., Judge Thomas). That case actually cites the other two as wrong, and that they are the only cases finding that it is an SSA benefit.

[justbroke]

Are you sure you're not a bk lawyer JB?

About right now, I wish I were one! Not that I want to get rich from the plight of humanity (and personal bankruptcies), but one could make a good living.

I'm actually a person who likes to battle if I feel my position is good. I also learned alot from my brother, who did go to Boston College law to earn his JD. I used to study with him. I would mess with him because I'd defend either side of the issue.

I would argue with him alot, because I could easily see a Supreme Court decision and see "why" they reached a particular decision. He couldn't do that until his second year. I think his problem was that he was (too) opinionated and thinking as a litigant (one-sided), and not as a litigator. In his second year, he said something clicked and then he started to understand. He already had an MBA and a B.S. in Economics, and was no dummy.

So, for the record, I am not an attorney, never practiced as an attorney, and never took the bar.

[OnTheRocks]

Regarding the unemployment extensions, they are automatic, you don't have to refile or do anything. Least in California.

[AngelinaCat]

So far it is automatic here in Florida, too. Let's see if I get extended again.

[enginerd]

my wife has to call in today... if my calculations are right, she should only get .5 weeks pay - the remainder of the initial 17.5 weeks that she was given. she has not received any information regarding an extension - she was told that she would receive instructions thru the mail on how to apply for an extension. we are sort of hoping that it will just run out - not apply for the extension - and then be on our way towards a 6-month lookback period that will allow us to file CH7.

is it just me, or does it seem wrong that a person can be right on the edge of qualifying for a CH7, but have unemployment push them into a CH13?