Revocation of Discharge

[fredasboss]

Good afternoon, I filed in Dec 08, my trustee wanted all of my tax refund plus money that I had taken out of the bank to pay rent, I explained that the money was for rent and that 900 of the tax refund was needed to pay state taxes. He was unwilling to budge. I let it go, but now he has filed a motion for turnover of property and/or funds and he wants to revoke the discharge. It says in the motion that I can file a written objection to his motion. I'm just wondering what needs to be stated in the objection as I can't find any sample objections online. Also, if my discharge gets revoked, what happens next? Thanks in advance for any help.

[keepmine]

Don't do something stupid. Pay the man!
You get your discharge revoked and, your creditors are free to pursue you once again.

[mom2three09]

I'm confused... are you saying you didn't give the trustee what he was asking for???

Why wouldn't you just give him what he wants rather then having your BK thrown out??

[justbroke]

Good afternoon, I filed in Dec 08, my trustee wanted all of my tax refund plus money that I had taken out of the bank to pay rent, I explained that the money was for rent and that 900 of the tax refund was needed to pay state taxes. He was unwilling to budge. I let it go, but now he has filed a motion for turnover of property and/or funds and he wants to revoke the discharge. It says in the motion that I can file a written objection to his motion. I'm just wondering what needs to be stated in the objection as I can't find any sample objections online. Also, if my discharge gets revoked, what happens next? Thanks in advance for any help.

You need to pay that tax refund to the Trustee... just as you were told to do earlier this year. If you filed pro se, you should have exempted the tax refund. If you have any exemption left over, you may be able to file a response and contemporaneously file amended schedules to exempt the refund, or part of the refund. If you filed with an attorney, call the attorney and see what he'll charge to help respond.

In the end, you'll have to come up with a legal basis for why yoru case shouldn't be revoked, turnover the refund to the Trustee, or suffer the consequences. You must follow the U.S. Trustee's order! You can't ignore them, unless you want to feel the power of the U.S. Trustee.

If your discharged gets revoked, all your creditors comes back with a vengeance, and interest added on!

[ForumReader]

Just wanted to understand a little better based from the OP's post. The OP filed in Dec 08. Did the Trustee want the 2007 tax refund that the OP originally filed for tax return in 2008 and received a tax refund for 2007?

[justbroke]

Just wanted to understand a little better based from the OP's post. The OP filed in Dec 08. Did the Trustee want the 2007 tax refund that the OP originally filed for tax return in 2008 and received a tax refund for 2007?

No, it would be the 2008 Refund, that was filed in 2009. The Trustee can't go that far back. That's becuase the refund would have already been disbursed.

You have to think of the IRS as a bank... if you are overwithholding. They are holding your money. So at the time you filed, the IRS has a bunch of your money (if you are overwithholding). Since it had not been disbursed (refunded) before filing, it is property of the Bankruptcy Estate, unless it is exempted.

[backtoschool]

No, it would be the 2008 Refund, that was filed in 2009. The Trustee can't go that far back. That's becuase the refund would have already been disbursed.

You have to think of the IRS as a bank... if you are overwithholding. They are holding your money. So at the time you filed, the IRS has a bunch of your money (if you are overwithholding). Since it had not been disbursed (refunded) before filing, it is property of the Bankruptcy Estate, unless it is exempted.

How forward reaching is this? For instance, my 341 was last week and I won't file my 2009 tax return until Feb or March 2010. The trustee has not asked for a refund yet, and I do not live in a state where the refunds are automatically given to the trustee. Will I have to give my refund to the trustee in March, even though my case will be discharged in November?

[justbroke]

How forward reaching is this? For instance, my 341 was last week and I won't file my 2009 tax return until Feb or March 2010. The trustee has not asked for a refund yet, and I do not live in a state where the refunds are automatically given to the trustee. Will I have to give my refund to the trustee in March, even though my case will be discharged in November?

If your Trustee didn't ask for your Refund, either your attorney included your refund from the prior year (or an estimate) as income on your Schedule I... or your Trustee doesn't want it.

If your attorney and Trustee never mentioned surrendering your refund, then you're okay. If you filed with an attorney, it would be wise to double check with them.

[backtoschool]

If your Trustee didn't ask for your Refund, either your attorney included your refund from the prior year (or an estimate) as income on your Schedule I... or your Trustee doesn't want it.

If your attorney and Trustee never mentioned surrendering your refund, then you're okay. If you filed with an attorney, it would be wise to double check with them.

Thanks! I had already spent my refund from last February (2008) and I didn't exempt my future refund for 2009, but the trustee did not mention it at the 341. I have not received the trustee's report of no distribution yet, so it may come up still.
Anyway, I am sorry for hijacking the thread.

[ForumReader]

Thanks! I had already spent my refund from last February (2008) and I didn't exempt my future refund for 2009, but the trustee did not mention it at the 341. I have not been declared a no asset case yet, so it may come up still.

Anyway, I am sorry for hijacking the thread.

Hey thanks, BTS and JustBroke for clearing that up. I am glad the OP started this thread even though the OP should have given the refund in the first place to the TT as he/she asked for it. I had a small tax refund from 2008 and spent it. I will doublecheck with my attorney about the tax refund if I am due for one for 2009.

Sorry, too for hijacking the thread

[justbroke]

I will doublecheck with my attorney about the tax refund if I am due for one for 2009.

Since your 341 Meeting hasn't even happened yet, this is a good time to get on the same page with your Attorney. The Trustee may mention it at your 341 Meeting.

Generally speaking, and very generally speaking, the Trustee will usually base his/her requirement for your Refund based on looking at prior year returns. If they see that your prior year returns had massive refunds... they will usually want the refund.

[justplaintired]

So if the trustee didn't mention our upcoming refund of 09, if we have one, then we can assume we are safe to keep it? Our 341 was in July and not word about our tax refund. So if we are discharged close to the date we are suppose to be and nothing is said, then we are safe to spend it? We don't usually file until sometime in March and it's never much, maybe $600 or so. I hadn't really thought about this until now and if we aren't suppose to spend it then what do we do with it?

[ForumReader]

Since your 341 Meeting hasn't even happened yet, this is a good time to get on the same page with your Attorney. The Trustee may mention it at your 341 Meeting.

Generally speaking, and very generally speaking, the Trustee will usually base his/her requirement for your Refund based on looking at prior year returns. If they see that your prior year returns had massive refunds... they will usually want the refund.

I have a pre 341 appt with my attorney later this week. My refund of last year was small, not massive, just enough to buy 3 weeks of food. Now for anyone who has to fork over the tax refund to the TT, how does the proess work? Write a check to the TT or IRS does an offset to send to the trustee?

[justbroke]

So if the trustee didn't mention our upcoming refund of 09, if we have one, then we can assume we are safe to keep it?

If you are post-341 Meeting, the easiest way to tell, is if the Trustee declared you a no-asset case.

[justbroke]

Now for anyone who has to fork over the tax refund to the TT, how does the proess work? Write a check to the TT or IRS does an offset to send to the trustee?

You either give then the actual check, or you write a check to the Trustee. The IRS doesn't offset the check. I have read, however, in some Districts, the Trustee will have the IRS "redirect" the address where the check gets mailed. So it's never in your hands... but don't count on that.