Very Weird Attorneys - Help!

[jribe]

I came up with a question from others threads.

Bankruptcy is a federal law. But how can the local Trustees apply different judgements to each BK case? Some are saying that mortgages and/or students loans won't be counted as the expenses but others experienced that they could include those in their expenses. (I checked a lot of similar threads in this forum)

Mortgages and student loans are critical factors to judge Ch 7 or 13. But how can the federal BK law have so different results? I think it's not fair. I am just curious....

its a federal law- with local jurisdiction. Each state has "bankruptcy districts" in northern ca- you're in the eastern district. On this forum- i haven't seen too many people with experience in this district. Most people are concentrated in the N and S East and there are some in S Cal as well.

BTW- Bay Area is a different district as well; i don't think that Northern CA is too difficult. They actually have a very highly rate court website.

https://www.caeb.uscourts.gov

Check it out- there's a lot of great resources on there...

[sjcmCA]

Another Confusion

I'd keep the mortgage current on the rental property and claim intention to reaffirm. I'd dump the place after discharge. No whim of the TT in that situation.

OhioFiler,

How can I surrender the mortgages later? I think that I should make sure the list of reaffirmation in the BK file. The Trustee is supposed to see that which items will be surrendered after the discharge.

I think no matter what situations are on mortgages (default or current), the Trustee will know that I will surrender the rental property later, right?

Furthermore, I am not afford to pay the mortgages and HOA since I stopped receiving a rent from the tenant.

(FYI, My student loans balances $45k and the monthly payment is $520)

[mom2three09]

OhioFiler,

How can I surrender the mortgages later? I think that I should make sure the list of reaffirmation in the BK file. The Trustee is supposed to see that which items will be surrendered after the discharge.

I think no matter what situations are on mortgages (default or current), the Trustee will know that I will surrender the rental property later, right?

Furthermore, I am not afford to pay the mortgages and HOA since I stopped receiving a rent from the tenant.

(FYI, My student loans balances $45k and the monthly payment is $520)

How would the trustee know what you plan to do later? We stated were we reaffirming our mortgage on our schedules, but then changed our minds after our 341.... no one says you can't change your mind after discharge. But you must stay current atleast til after your 341 (not sure, but you would probably want to stay current til after discharge).

[backtoschool]

I have often wondered this myself. My job is heavily involved with another part of civil law, and there is no where near this sort of leeway given. I think what sucks is that trustees really can do whatever they like in regards to this stuff, particularly the student loans. The government mandates payment of the student loans in basically 99% of circumstances with one hand and then allows trustees to disregard them with the other. Major fault in bankruptcy reform law if you ask me.

I think it is really amazing that one person could be pushed into a 13 because student loans were disregarded, but another person could get a 7 because they got to claim a house they intend to surrender. I hope a serious look is taken at these laws soon, because they do not seem just.

It's even worse because those student loans are accruing interest for the five years you are in chapter 13. The justification that the trustees use is that since student loans can be put into forbearance for the duration of the bankruptcy they should not be factored into a bankruptcy budget. This is wrong in my opinion, because five years of interest on 100k of student loans, will be another huge debt burden at the end of a five year plan.

[ease]

Our attorney is sometimes weird too. However, he told us exactly how many BK cases he's done....thousands. We also saw him every visit. Never saw a paralegal or anything. Heck, our youngest played with his kids at the initial consultation. He works from home.
The best part is, he knows the trustees. So he picked our filing date to get a reasonable one. We have a small income from a family trust...long story but my FIL still haunts us from his grave. I swear I wish we didn't have it.
The practice and interpretation of law is nuanced. It matters who you get.

[sjcmCA]

Per suggestions, I met the 3rd attorney today. (I was lucky to make an appointment today)

(( Attorney 3 ))
He said that no matter what, e.g., surrending rental property or not, ALL EXPENSES should be included in the means test.

It meant that all mortgages, HOA, tax, student loans, and even my rental payment can be included in the means test.

He said that it's very simple. If we pass the means test in house, there should be no problem to pass Trustee. I don't have to worry about which Trustee is more stringent or not....Trustee should be very straight forward.

Now, I am very comfortable about my situation. What I need to do is just waiting couple of months more to be qualified for Chapter 7. He also advised me that I MUST STOP ALL PAYMENTS.

I made another appointment with another attorney in mid-September, but it would be much less stressful.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. You are all good neighbors!!!

[sjcmCA]

Have a wonderful weekend!

[bluemartini]

The best part is, he knows the trustees. So he picked our filing date to get a reasonable one. .....
The practice and interpretation of law is nuanced. It matters who you get.

Very interesting, I never really thought about it but it makes sense.