top Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lawsuit threat before discharge...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Lawsuit threat before discharge...

    Filed Chapter 7: 06/09/09
    341 Meeting: 07/16/09
    Last day to object: 09/14/09

    We took out a windows loan (~$10,000) for our house with First Mutual Bank in April of 2006. They filed a breach of contract lawsuit against us on this loan but never got a default judgment due to the fact that we filed for Chapter 7. Our 341 was smooth with no issues at all. No activity on pacer at all since our 341.

    But our attorney called today saying that First Mutual was considering suing us in bankruptcy court because they believe that we overstated our income on the loan application by $1,700 per month. They get the figure by comparing what we stated in 2006 and what we made in 2007 (Tax Returns part of bankruptcy filing). They are pretty much just basing this off my wife’s income as a teacher saying that it should be a steady income and why does it show less in 2007.

    I can remember filling out this application out on our back porch... we pretty much just guessed at our income as the guy was pressuring us to fill it out that day. There was no intent to defraud or whatever they are claiming. We put down $66,000 as my wife’s income on the application. Going back to check our tax returns she made:

    2005: $58,500 (overstated by $7,500)
    2006: $54,000 (overstated by $12,000)
    2007: $45,500 (overstated by $20,500)

    We took the loan out in early 2006 so her income was running around that $58,000 at the time... so it doesn't seem like we were all that far off with our guess. Our daughter was born in late 2006 and she ended up taking a few months of unpaid leave which drove down her income in late 2006/2007.

    So the lawyers for First Mutual are saying they are giving us a chance to show them why our income in 2007 is lower than what we said it was in 2006. They are asking for copies of our 2005 and 2006 tax returns. Our attorney says this is outside of the scope of our retainer for the bankruptcy so it would cost us to have them deal with it.

    Not really sure what we should do here. You guys have any advice on this. Does their threat of a lawsuit due to overstated income hold water or are they trying to push for some kind of settlement or what?

    Thanks in advance!
    Filed Chapter 7: 06/09/09
    341 Meeting: 07/16/09
    Discharged: 09/21/09
    Case Closed: 09/25/09

    #2
    I'm not 100% positive, but I think that if you fought this they would have to not only prove that you purposely misrepresented the income, but that it resulted in them giving you a loan you wouldn't have qualified for otherwise. In other words, if you had stated your income as $58k, would they have approved you for the loan?

    Comment


      #3
      We also made 3 years of payments on this loan. There is no way our intent was to misrepresent or defraud.

      I wish we could have anticipated what was going to happen with the housing market... but we didn't and here we are.
      Filed Chapter 7: 06/09/09
      341 Meeting: 07/16/09
      Discharged: 09/21/09
      Case Closed: 09/25/09

      Comment


        #4
        They can sue you only in an Adversary Procedure. However, they have to prove intent. They are stating fraud, but you made no fraud within your bk at all so the bk laws were not broken. Your explanation as stated would satisfy any Jury. I doubt they wish to go to court over this, but you could cause them some problems by asking for a full accountability of your debt. Unless they subpoena you, don't give them a thing. Play it out as it may just go away. An AP only determines one creditor, and should not interfere with the normal bk process. P.S. I have experience with APs. 'Hub
        If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

        Comment


          #5
          Maybe I'm misinformed, but I thought during the automatic stay, creditors were not allowed to contact you in any fashion let alone demand copies of your tax returns or explain anything. It sounds like they are on a fishing trip.
          Filed Ch7 5/28/09 (Pro Se) Orlando, 341 7/01, UST selected case for audit 7/01, Last day for objection 8/31. Audit report filed 9/10, no material misstatements. Discharged and closed 9/22/2009

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by aljohnson007 View Post
            Maybe I'm misinformed, but I thought during the automatic stay, creditors were not allowed to contact you in any fashion let alone demand copies of your tax returns or explain anything. It sounds like they are on a fishing trip.
            I believe the OP stated they went through his lawyer. That is proper to do. 'Hub
            If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

            Comment


              #7
              and the bk code allows creditors to request your tax returns prior to the 341. i guess they must have done that.
              filed ch7 May 09
              341 june 09
              discharged, closed Aug 09

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by music12 View Post
                and the bk code allows creditors to request your tax returns prior to the 341. i guess they must have done that.
                I know they can definitely request it but is it only prior to your 341?
                My comments are solely based on my opinion. The information and links that I have
                posted are provided solely for informational purposes, and do not constitute legal advice

                Comment


                  #9
                  There was recently a case in CA where the court threw out the Income argument because they said the creditor failed to use due diligence to verify the details. The couple had over stated their income by a good $100k.

                  Considering you have paid the loans for so long, I highly doubt they can use the intended to deceive or defraud argument.
                  My comments are solely based on my opinion. The information and links that I have
                  posted are provided solely for informational purposes, and do not constitute legal advice

                  Comment


                    #10
                    We provided our 2007 and 2008 tax info as part of the bankruptcy. We are 14 days from discharge and this is the first contact we've had from any of our creditors.

                    Our attorney has asked me to draft a letter to forward to them regarding the situation. The First Mutual attorney says they wanted to contact us first to see if we can explain why there was such a big drop from what was put on our loan app in 2006 compared to what shows in the 2007 tax return which was part of our bankruptcy papers.

                    I knew things were just going way to smooth.
                    Filed Chapter 7: 06/09/09
                    341 Meeting: 07/16/09
                    Discharged: 09/21/09
                    Case Closed: 09/25/09

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think they are bluffing. It is not as if you took the loan out and then refused to pay them. It's not as if they asked you to verify your income and you provided them with falsified documents.

                      I wonder if music12 is right about not being able to request them post 341. How did they get your 2007 and 2008 returns anyway? They would have had to ask your lawyer for them.
                      My comments are solely based on my opinion. The information and links that I have
                      posted are provided solely for informational purposes, and do not constitute legal advice

                      Comment


                        #12
                        They are grasping at straws at this point...geesh...
                        I think they will have a hard time proving anything, they (the creditor) is just now checking/verifying your income?!?

                        Hang in there, my best to you~
                        May 2008 Hired 1st Attorney/Stopped paying CCs
                        May 21, 2009 Retained 2nd Attorney
                        May 28th - Filed for Ch 7 (FINALLY!)
                        9/11/09 - DISCHARGED!!!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by shabam View Post
                          How did they get your 2007 and 2008 returns anyway? They would have had to ask your lawyer for them.
                          Our 2007 and 2008 tax numbers were part of the original bankruptcy petition. So anyone with pacer access can get that info.
                          Filed Chapter 7: 06/09/09
                          341 Meeting: 07/16/09
                          Discharged: 09/21/09
                          Case Closed: 09/25/09

                          Comment


                            #14
                            They should not be. They are usually only sent to the trustee directly. The creditor would have to request them from your lawyer.

                            Edit: ah the numbers, I see. Did you guys file a joint petition?
                            My comments are solely based on my opinion. The information and links that I have
                            posted are provided solely for informational purposes, and do not constitute legal advice

                            Comment


                              #15
                              In all of my research, I have never seen one AP filed due to income.

                              The only people to be charged, yes charged, for misstating income was a middle eastern couple. However they lived off their credit cards and amassed $180K in cc debt. They also grossly exaggerated their income, like 4 to 8 times their actual income, even while receiving food stamps.
                              My comments are solely based on my opinion. The information and links that I have
                              posted are provided solely for informational purposes, and do not constitute legal advice

                              Comment

                              bottom Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X