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    California Exemptions Questions Long Message

    My case was filed by an attorney 10-6-05. I reviewed the documents prior to signing, asked questions and pointed out what appeared to be errors to me. She had me sign and said they would be corrected before filing.

    The attorney that helped me, I found out later, is not the bankruptcy attorney in the firm.

    Some of my questions remained unanswered with a my husband knows more as he has been handling the BK cases for 25 years now or it depends upon how the trustee views things that I asked about.

    To date I have not received a copy of my petition from the attorney's office. I called last week and they are running two-and-one-half weeks behind in mailing.

    I pulled a copy of my petition from Pacer today. I had some questions and called the attorney's office, they took my number as no one was available that could assist me. I will probably have to go park myself on the doorstep one day next week if they do not get back to me by the first part of next week as my 341 is on November 9.

    I need to ask some questions to see if how I am viewing things is actually correct.

    1. My income is based upon Social Security Disability in the amount of $1154. and ERISA pensions from my deceased husband in the amount of $418. I had money in the bank on the day of filing from Social Security proceeds in the amount of $1000. and ERISA pension proceeds in the amount of $782. These two amounts are in separate accounts that are not co-mingled with any other funds. I have a separate account setup from when I was working that has $50.

    I asked the attorney if the Social Security Disability and ERISA funds were exempt funds and she said the trustee does not always look at those funds in that manner. That puzzled me from what I had read previously.

    Shouldn't the listings on my Schedule C property claimed as exempt be:
    1a the $1000. be listed as Bank Account-Social Security 703.140(B)(10)(a)?
    1b and the $782. be listed as Bank Account ERISA benefits
    703.140(B)(10(e)?
    1c and the $50. listed as Bank Account 703.140(B)(5) $1000. of any property since it is a separate account of funds not exempt because of the Social Security and ERISA exemptions?

    The attorney listed $1000. as Bank Account 703.140(B)(5) $1000. of any property.

    The attorney added the $782.to the $50. account and listed as Bank Account in the amount of $832. 703.140(B)(1) Unused portion of homestead applied to any property up to $18675.

    2. I have life insurance with cash value.
    a. $4197.
    b. $872.
    c. $10,983.
    d. $634.

    These policies were listed on Schedule B under item 19 Contingent and non-contingent interests in estate of decedent, death benefit plan, life insurance policy or trust by the attorney.

    When I reviewed the petition before signing only one life insurance amount was listed and I pointed this out. She said it would be corrected before they submitted the petition.

    On the copy of the petition that they did submit they grouped an annuity that I own through one of the life insurance companies in the amount of $820. and added it together with one of the life insurance amounts.

    I feel all of the entries under item 19 are incorrect as these are insurance policies which I own.

    Shouldn't these items be listed on Schedule B under item 9 Interests in insurance policies, Name insurance company of each policy and itemize surrender or refund value of each?

    Shouldn't the annuities of $820. be listed on Schedule B under item 10 annuities, Itemize and name each user and not lumped in with the insurance information?

    3. On Schedule C regarding exemptions on Life Insurance Surrender Value the attorney listed $17506. 703.140(B)(1) Unused portion of homestead applies to any property up to $18675. Their $17506. figure consists of Life Insurance $4197., $872., $10983., $634. and the annuity of $820.

    Shouldn't this be listed as follows:
    3a Life Insurance Surrender Value $6986. 703.140(B)(1) Unused portion of homestead applied to any property up to $18675.?
    3b Unmatured Life Insurance Contract $9700. 703.140(B)(8) Unmatured Life Insurance contract accrued interest, dividend, loan, cash or surrender value up to $9700.?
    3c Annuities $820. 703.140(B)(1) Unused portion of homestead applied to any property up to $18675.?

    The reason I am concerned about getting the exemptions coded to what I think is correct and hopefully I am vs. how the attorney's office coded them is because the attorney said I will probably have to repay $5283. if my exemptions are exhausted.

    I cashed in stocks 8-1-05 in the amount of $5283. and used the money towards replacing the air conditioner and furnace which was 24 years old and the July electric bill was $555. for the one month. I have lived with my mother in her home for the past 20 years and the last four years I have paid for most home repairs in lieu of rent.

    I have been paying rent again beginning September 2005 as my mom had her house re-financed to do additional long needed repairs and her house payment increased resulting in her requesting that I now pay rent again.

    If the way I am interpreting the exemptions is correct then that will leave me an additional amount of available money under the 703.140(B)(1) exemption of $18675. in the event I need to exempt the stocks I cashed in for the air conditioner and furnace.

    If anyone is willing to try to help me, please let me thank you in advance!

    Chapter 7 No Asset Exemptions System 2

    CAB in CA

    #2
    If I had an attorney... I'd put all that in writing to my attorney!

    It looks to me like you need to put all that in writing to your attorney --- FAX it ASAP -- that is what you are paying them for, right --- and if they do not file your amemded schedules before your 341 Meeting, you need to take some action about all this mess... document everything with dates, times, names, places and write to your local BAR ASSOCIATION!!!

    It looks like you are doing more than your share of your homework... and you get an A+ !!! -- But maybe your attorney is too busy to respond to you?

    Hope you get through to your attorney on Monday AM!!!

    My understanding is the California System 2 homestead/wildcard of $18675 is the whole enchilada... after you exhaust all your other exemptions, you start to eat out of that pie... yes?
    Last edited by quest42; 10-29-2005, 03:42 PM.
    I'm in N. California ... Thanks for your replies!
    10/11/05: bought www.form7.com software
    10/14/05: Filed Ch 7 BK Petition pro se skeleton
    10/27/05: Filed all schedules, etc.
    11/17/05: 341 meeting (done!)
    01/16/06: Last day to file objections
    01/18/06: Discharged, closed

    Bankruptcy LINKS

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for your reply!

      I was hoping that I was interpreting the codes correctly and be doing so free up some additional monies in case I need it. The way the lawyer has things listed right now about all of the $18675. exemption is exhausted.

      Their office was open today and I called after closing time today and left a message on their machine. They did not return my call from yesterday before closing today.

      I will probably draft up a fax tomorrow so it will be in their inbox when they open Monday.

      So far, things certainly have not gone as I had hoped!

      With the original electronic filing the court messed up my creditor's matrix that appears online. The case was filed 10-6-05, I notified the attorney on 10-7 or 10-8 when I saw it on PACER and the office told me not to worry, the correct documents were scanned in and PACER was really screwed up right now!

      I accessed PACER again on 10-17-05 and the mailing matrix was still incorrect so at that point I faxed the two pages I pulled from PACER to the attorney's office so they could see what I was trying to explain.

      I called again on 10-21-05 and no one was in the office that could help me that could address the issue and they never did call back.

      I accessed PACER again on 10-27-05 (apparently their office followed through and contacted the court) and found a new History page "Corrective Entry" filed on 10-26-05 reading as follows:

      Full docket text:
      Corrective Entry(RE: related document(s) [1] Voluntary Petition (Chapter 7) filed by Debtor MY NAME DUE TO CLERICAL ERROR, THE CREDITORS ON ANOTHER CASE WERE INADVERTENTLY UPLOADED IN ERROR. THE CREDITORS LIST PROVIDED BY THE DEBTOR'S ATTORNEY WHEN THE PETITION WAS SUBMITTED ARE ADDED TO THIS CASE. (clerk's name)

      It seems as though it has been one obstacle after another!

      Just a little smoother sailing would certainly be welcomed.

      CAB in CA

      Comment


        #4
        Lawyer finally called now I am really confused!

        The lawyer finally called. Over the weekend I faxed what I thought would be a list of the correct exemptions to the office.

        She told me that the total of all exemptions allowed for California CH 7 System 2 is $18,675.

        I am really confused. Have I totally misinterpreted how exemptions work?

        I thought you were allowed the exemptions listed for California in addition to offsetting anything that was above an allowable exemption with the homestead figure up to $18,675.

        What is the purpose of having a Social Security exemption, ERISA exemption, clothing exemption, life insurance value exemption, etc., if all you can exempt in total is the $18,675?

        It doesn't make any sense to me. I guess that is why I am not a lawyer and I hired one???

        Thanks for any enlightening!!!

        CAB in CA

        Comment


          #5
          I'm not sure about the exemptions as I am not familiar w/ CA. But, regarding the stocks you cashed in on 8/1, since you can document where the $$ went and it went to home repairs, utility bills, etc. (required things rather than luxuries) you should not have a problem there.

          If you could not document what happened to the money or it went to family, friends, etc. that WOULD be an issue.
          Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks StaciMM!

            CAB in CA

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by CAB in CA
              The lawyer finally called. ...

              I am really confused. Have I totally misinterpreted how exemptions work?

              I thought you were allowed the exemptions listed for California in addition to offsetting anything that was above an allowable exemption with the homestead figure up to $18,675.

              What is the purpose of having a Social Security exemption, ERISA exemption, clothing exemption, life insurance value exemption, etc., if all you can exempt in total is the $18,675?

              It doesn't make any sense to me. I guess that is why I am not a lawyer and I hired one???

              Thanks for any enlightening!!!

              CAB in CA
              I'd like to know the answer to that one too! The CA system 2 says: Homestead Exemption... Real Property and Personal Property and Wildcard remainder... $18,675... and the other exemptions are for different things... HELP? Something seems wrong to me from what you wrote here about the attorney's explanation, compared to what I have read elsewhere ... SO, what's the right answer??? http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/do...exemptions.pdf

              See also NOLO book:

              Last edited by quest42; 11-02-2005, 09:17 AM.
              I'm in N. California ... Thanks for your replies!
              10/11/05: bought www.form7.com software
              10/14/05: Filed Ch 7 BK Petition pro se skeleton
              10/27/05: Filed all schedules, etc.
              11/17/05: 341 meeting (done!)
              01/16/06: Last day to file objections
              01/18/06: Discharged, closed

              Bankruptcy LINKS

              Comment


                #8
                How do the California System 2 exemptions REALLY work?

                Any answer yet?

                Can the $18,675 homestead/real/personal property/wildcard exemption be used along with other specific exemptions to make an aggregate total of more than $18,675 exempt?

                Yes, or no?
                Last edited by quest42; 11-02-2005, 09:08 AM.
                I'm in N. California ... Thanks for your replies!
                10/11/05: bought www.form7.com software
                10/14/05: Filed Ch 7 BK Petition pro se skeleton
                10/27/05: Filed all schedules, etc.
                11/17/05: 341 meeting (done!)
                01/16/06: Last day to file objections
                01/18/06: Discharged, closed

                Bankruptcy LINKS

                Comment

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