New Schedule J..please look and give opinions

[berrymom35]

Okay..so I redid my schedule J expenses...could you guys please take a look at them and tell me what you think?

Mortgage: 688.95
Electricity/gas: 450.0
Water and sewer: 60
Telephone and Internet: 130
Cellphones (3): 240.00
Cable: 90.00
Trash: 20
Home maintenance: 75
Food: 1200.00
Clothing: 200.00
Laundry/dry cleaning: 50.00
Medical/dental: 200.00
Transportaion: 500.00 (we commute)
Recreation: 150.00
Home Insurance: 58.33
Life Insurance: 77
Car Insurance: 79
Taxes (personal property/house/self employment): 250.00
Auto: 264
80
Son's (2) activities: 105 (karate/football/baseball)
Daughter's activities: 102 (competitve cheer)
Preschool: 100
Business: 50 (office supplies)
School lunches: 40
Personal Hygene/hair-cuts/highlights: 85

the hair stipen, lunches, food clothes, laundry...should be lumped into the $1600+ I'm allowed per IRS standards right?

Please let me know any thoughts on this new schedule!

[backtoschool]

40 a month for school lunches seems low. The cheerleading seems high. I would put some of the cheerleading cost elsewhere.

The hair costs are fine, but take off the word "highlights".

The cell phone seems high. This is the type of trustee that will want to know why your kids are not on the ten dollar add on plan.

I am sure there are more expenses associated with your stay-at-home business that you can claim to make up the difference.

All the rest of the expenses look good to me.

[LSUTiger32]

I don't really know how these things work but if I was the trustee, a few things would jump out at me. $450 a month for electric and gas on a $688 a month house. I think that would be a red flag. Also, $1,200 a month on food. Holy cow, what is the size of your family cause I am fat and we don't usually spend more than $600 on a family of 4. $700 is the most we've ever done. You have $500 for transportation and then $264 for an auto. Is the $500 the standard allowance in your state? Another thing I see that I would question is are three cell phones at $240 a month necessary?

I am rather new to all of this, but I am almost positive that food, clothing, personal expenses, etc. are all lumped into the one deduction which in LA where I live is $1,370 for a family of 4.

[mom2three09]

Okay..so I redid my schedule J expenses...could you guys please take a look at them and tell me what you think?

Mortgage: 688.95
Electricity/gas: 450.0 *seems high to me--our home is 1800 sq ft & there's 5 of us and our gas&elec run no more then $250 per mo. (depending on the season)*
Water and sewer: 60
Telephone and Internet: 130
Cellphones (3): 240.00 *so you have a landline plus cell phones? $240 seems quite high for 3 lines -- we have 4 and unlimited text,etc thru VZW and only pay $150*
Cable: 90.00
Trash: 20
Home maintenance: 75
Food: 1200.00 *how many are in your family? as I've said there's 5 of us (that includes two teenagers) and we were allowed $700/mo*
Clothing: 200.00 *also seems a little high to me*
Laundry/dry cleaning: 50.00
Medical/dental: 200.00
Transportaion: 500.00 (we commute) *wow, this seems quite high too--hopefully you have gas receipts to back this one up*
Recreation: 150.00
Home Insurance: 58.33
Life Insurance: 77
Car Insurance: 79
Taxes (personal property/house/self employment): 250.00
Auto: 264
80
Son's (2) activities: 105 (karate/football/baseball)
Daughter's activities: 102 (competitve cheer)
Preschool: 100
Business: 50 (office supplies)
School lunches: 40 (I would add more to this--our lunches cost us $10 per week per child)
Personal Hygene/hair-cuts/highlights: 85 *take off word "highlights"*

the hair stipen, lunches, food clothes, laundry...should be lumped into the $1600+ I'm allowed per IRS standards right?

Please let me know any thoughts on this new schedule!

Honestly, some of your amounts seem quite high to me. Surely your attorney knows what will fly with the trustee in your jurisdiction-- I would run all of these past him/her.

So what are your numbers like? Are you in the negative? If so, by how much?

[backtoschool]

I looked at your expenses again, and I would lower the food expense to around 800 a month max, after googling some posts to see what people were claiming.

I also would make sure you have receipts for that 500 a month in transportation costs. Gas is under 3.00 a gallon now and it would be hard to spend 500/month.

Because you are amending your schedules, and some of your discretionary expense categories are high, you might be at risk for being pushed into a chapter 13. To fly under the radar more, I would lower the expenses that are above the average for what a family of 5 would spend.

[berrymom35]

Our house is 1800 sq feet and those are actual numbers...this winter our electric bills were $250 and our Gas $200...we live in 100 year old house that is drafty...also, our state allows for $420 for utilities...the tt did not question this.

Groceries...I honestly spend at least $250 per week on groceries..I have three kids that eat and eat and eat...a husband who takes lunches to work and so on...I did have $1050 and the trustee did not question it..our state allows us $1632 for food, housekeeping supplies, apparel, personal care and other miscellaneous...with the food total at 1,200 and adding in the other...I am still under the 1632 amount.

School lunches: I agree these are low..but I dont' want the tt to question it...It's actually at least $60 per month..over $3 per day per child.

Thanks for all the help! I wish I had done this first!

[berrymom35]

Oh, the 500 is what is allowed in our state..both our vehicles are 10+ years old and there is some expenditure that allows so much per vehicle that are that old...my husband commutes 50 miles each way three days per week and I communte 120 miles each way one day per week...We each easily spend $60 per week in gas, so our actual expenditures are over 500 if you factor in the alternator that went out last month in my van and the tie rod ends my husband had to replace month before last on his truck....

Also, about our phone situation. We have to have a home phone line in order to have internet...because all we have available to us is DSL..so we have to keep the phone line...the internet is $50 and the phone line is $80.....We have three cell phones and I use mine for business calls....which I deduct from my taxes...we have an unlimited plan along with unlimited texting (kids) and the actual monthly rate is $191...add a few calls to 411 here and there and then taxes and fees it gets boosted up to at least $240

[Lookadat]

It was a never ending battle trying to fine tune the schedule for me. I'd cut where I thought I could, and underestimated other items. You gotta run this thing like a military ship and leave room for the unexpected. Very tough to stick to the plan each month, as a result you will keep making changes. I was on my third budget plan which was different from the one I supplied the courts when I got audited. You don't need an audit. It's like being guilty until you prove you are innocent. Do not exaggerate or short change yourself, as this is your one chance to live they way you needed to live before you got into this mess. Like the bumper sticker says "Act Your Wage". Good luck.

[jadams]

Telephone and Internet: 130
Cellphones (3): 240.00
Cable: 90.00
Recreation: 150.00
Son's (2) activities: 105 (karate/football/baseball)
Daughter's activities: 102 (competitve cheer)

None of those seem bad by themselves, but all together that's $820 on random entertainment type stuff.

I would be concerned that it's very easy for a trustee to question one or two of those and suddenly you have income to fund a CH 13.

The telecom expenses seem really high.

Edit to Ad:

Saw your post above. Once you get done with your BK and don't need the expense for your schedules, you may want to recheck your DSL situation. A few years back it was true that you needed to have the phone service, but an FCC ruling mandated that carriers make dry or naked DSL available to residential addresses.

[mom2three09]

I see what you're saying as far as what's allowed. But since you've already been questioned on your expenses I would just be a little worried if I were throwing amounts in just because they are allowed and not because I have proof to back them up. That's just me tho ;)

[LuciluS]

IF you have 12 months worth of utility bills & averaged them, I don't think the TT could object to them. A family of 5 in an 1800 sq. ft. home is about right. Dang cheap mortgage payment. We have 1430 sq. ft. and our mortgage payment is $905.16 a month.

Your Taxes don't seem high enough for what you stated including house/personal property AND self-employment taxes. Double check that.

Also did you include vehicle registration (license plates) anywhere.

The commute, again if you have the receipts so be it. How can any one person know that gasoline will not go as high as it did last year?

Cell phones? Isn't there a place for business expenses? Sorry it's been awhile since I looked at a Schedule J. If there is, then break your cell phone bill out and show your's as business expenses.

Dh is an over the road truck driver & our BK Attorney did not tell me until Jan. that he needed dh's weekly receipts. So I've got those for only 7 mths, but Attorney said that was okay. Also when Dh buys groceries on the weekends he takes a lot of food products with him in the truck. He has marked the grocery receipt what is home and what is business food.

[bkmaggster]

Once you get done with your BK and don't need the expense for your schedules, you may want to recheck your DSL situation. A few years back it was true that you needed to have the phone service, but an FCC ruling mandated that carriers make dry or naked DSL available to residential addresses.

I have DSL with no phone. $29.99/month. Also, prepaid cellphones are a lot cheaper than cellphone plans. Include your cellphone plans in the BK and you won't have to worry about termination fees.

To echo what others have said, your telecom, kids and recreation, transportation and utilities seem high. You said your utilities were based off of winter, but I believe you are supposed to average it over the year.

Be careful about putting money out on the table for the trustee to take in a 13.

[backtoschool]

Berrymom35, your trustee sounds tough, and she is trying to put you into a chap 13 plan. That is her ultimate goal. If you have too many entertainment and discretionary expenses, she will cut them and use them to fund a chap 13 plan.

Right now you have 150 for entertainment, 100 for cheerleading, 105 for sports, 240 for an unlimited cell plan, and 1200 for food. If the trustee told you to get a plan that was minutes instead of unlimited that would save 100 month. If she cut your food allowance to 800 a month, and cut out the kids hobbies, suddenly you have 700 a month to fund a chapter 13 plan. Trustees can tell you to downgrade. HBO is not a necessity to a trustee, neither is unlimited cell phone minutes.

I am NOT judging the expenses. I am simply saying that the trustee's goal is to get you into a chapter 13 plan, and these expenses are not protecting you from that in my opinion.

[berrymom35]

The IRS website states...these are the allowable expenses..without being questioned...then why are we questioned about them? Legally I could claim $300 per month in medical expenses..and it says..not to be questioned...but I'm sure this tt wold question it...it just does not seem right...we are $1000 per month UNDER THE MEDIAN..and I can't believe we are having to go through this!!!!!!

I did cut down food to 1,000 per month....
I also cut cheer to 80
I upped school unches to 60
I upped office supplies to 75
And about taxes...we did have $290 per month...which included my self employment taxes and the tt was all over it...I'm not sure if she realized it included my self employment taxes...even though they just take it out in the way of whatever return we would have...I'm still paying it....our returns used to be $5,000 per year...then I started working for myslef and our last return was 1,800...seems my taxes were around 3,000 which would be 300 per month! I'm just afraid to put that on there

[berrymom35]

Also, the cell bill is high, I agree, but it is what it is and were in a contract....we did contact our DSL/Phone carrier and they do not do DSL without a phone line...we tried to get it turned off because we use our cells almost exclusively.

Would they really be heartless and expect me to take my kids out of their activities? I know "technically" they could...but that is not right. It's not their fault that we screwed up and got into trouble with debt...it's just not fair.

Oh, and our mortgage of 688....it does not include taxes/insurance...with that it would probably be around $900..also, it's a 100 year old house that the couple who is owner financing us redid and sold to us for 112,000. They felt sorry for us when we lost our house and agreed to owner finance us for five years at 6.75 percent interest...they are angels.