Terrible Trustee!

[Tbornetun]

lol! You mean you hope your not in the western district of Missouri!

I only asked because we have run into a couple trustee like this in the past. They have kept some no asset Chapter 7 cases open for over a year, letters back and forth with the trustees office until finally we could get them to close.

[eddiep]

justbroke, I dont think you are in the minority on this one.

I think it is human nature to look out for yourself, that is normal. But you can't have it both ways. You have to follow all the rules, the ones that protect you and the ones that protect the system from abuse. I feel that the trustee was on the ball.

[banca rotta]

The Trustee is not your friend, is not your lawyer, and is not looking out for you. As justbroke states, they are looking for money. They are representing the "other side".

And as was said, they've seen it all...

I totally agree!! Why would anyone suspect a trustee is going to be nice to a debtor? When I first had to file like most I planned on getting grilled but it wasn't that bad.

I did sit in on meetings prior to my case and saw MEN trustees really grill debtors for similar reasons that the OP stated.

Very good thread this is. Let the newbies who file unprepared see how the trustees are and prepare for it.

[BEN]

Hi I'm not sure if this is related to the topic.. is there a limitation to the accusations and objections the trustee can make against your case after your 341 and keep extending the discharge date . I'm in a situation that the trustee is saying they feel I had something to do with the purchase of my family members property, I would have been 10 years old at the time and on top of it they also said I ran a business from the same property 15 years ago, problem with that was that I was incarcerated at that time. The third is that they said when I was asked "what could your property sell for today" at the 341, I answered " I really don't know" that was considered by the trustee as evading the question, even though I had paid for an appraisal and Realtor comps a couple of months earlier. Is there a point in time when the trustee can be full of BS and just being a pain in the arse and I just have to deal with it??

[justbroke]

Hi I'm not sure if this is related to the topic.. is there a limitation to the accusations and objections the trustee can make against your case after your 341 and keep extending the discharge date .

I don't know why you call them accusations, but the Trustee can, for cause, petition the Court to extend the discharge date. Since it must be for cause, the Trustee must make a statement regarding extending the discharge. Generally, the Trustee can't just arbitrarily move any of the bar dates on a whim or just based on "accusations".

I'm in a situation that the trustee is saying they feel I had something to do with the purchase of my family members property, I would have been 10 years old at the time and on top of it they also said I ran a business from the same property 15 years ago, problem with that was that I was incarcerated at that time.

Pretty easy to rebut then, huh? There must be more to this that is peaking the curiosity of the U.S. Trustee.

The third is that they said when I was asked "what could your property sell for today" at the 341, I answered " I really don't know" that was considered by the trustee as evading the question, even though I had paid for an appraisal and Realtor comps a couple of months earlier.

Everyone has some idea of what their property is worth. Even if you tempered it with "I'm unsure what the market has done, but I believe my home to be worth $500K". When you become evasive in your responses, the Trustee is no longer amused and becomes very inquisitive into your financial affairs.

Is there a point in time when the trustee can be full of BS and just being a pain in the arse and I just have to deal with it??

Their job is to make sure that you are not hiding assets. In your case, and potentially what they observed to be "evasive" answers, they are taking the stance that you are in fact hiding something. Once they perceive you're hiding something, it's going to be drag out, not fun anymore. It's like having the IRS come in and do a complete forensic audit.

If you filed with an attorney, then your attorney should have instructed you to be 100% open, above board, and highly cooperative. What does your attorney say?

[hereforinfo]

Hi I'm not sure if this is related to the topic.. is there a limitation to the accusations and objections the trustee can make against your case after your 341 and keep extending the discharge date . I'm in a situation that the trustee is saying they feel I had something to do with the purchase of my family members property, I would have been 10 years old at the time and on top of it they also said I ran a business from the same property 15 years ago, problem with that was that I was incarcerated at that time. The third is that they said when I was asked "what could your property sell for today" at the 341, I answered " I really don't know" that was considered by the trustee as evading the question, even though I had paid for an appraisal and Realtor comps a couple of months earlier. Is there a point in time when the trustee can be full of BS and just being a pain in the arse and I just have to deal with it??

I'm not sure if you're just having fun or what. But why wouldn't you answer with the value from the appraiser? That doesn't make sense.

[eddiep]

see this is my point exactly! People want the protection of filing bk but then don't want to follow the full disclosure rule. Give the trustee the information he wants, he will give you protection from your creditors and discharge your debt, simple!

[Over our heads]

Egads! We are in the MO western district, and we obviously got the gem of a trustee. Lawyer lady said he was a 'fair' one, and it seems she wasn't kidding!

I can think of 2 school districts in close proximity to me that all but scream send your kids to private schools. I'd sell my blood and my ovaries to keep my kids out of those districts!

[BEN]

I'm not sure if you're just having fun or what. But why wouldn't you answer with the value from the appraiser? That doesn't make sense.

"just having fun or what" ..just a stupid comment .


But why wouldn't you answer with the value from the appraiser?
When I was sitting at the 341 the TT had the appraisal and comps in one hand and in the other he had other docs pertaining to the house I own. The couple of comments he made were in regards to the value of my home. Just before he asked me he specifically said "without any of this" and he waved all the papers he was holding, he said to me "what could your property sell for today" he was quite specific in his question and how he asked it of me. I answered with the truth, " I really don't know". I didn't answer with what the appraiser felt nor the Realtor obviously they haven't gotten it right in the past few years. If you know what any of your real property would have sold for I don't think you'd be here on the forum chirping away, if I knew I surly wouldn't be here!

That doesn't make sense.
In your eyes it must not, but you weren't at the 341 and you have no idea how much information I gave them before the 341. Yes, tax returns for 2 years and all bank, brokerage, insurance policies and retirement statements even Paypal and Ebay statements, for when the fire sales began there were loads of entries for them, for the same time frame. My attorney knew the TT would want them so it was all given prior to be asked. What doesn't make sense is what he asked me and got his 00 's twisted and hung up on

[BEN]

see this is my point exactly! People want the protection of filing bk but then don't want to follow the full disclosure rule. Give the trustee the information he wants, he will give you protection from your creditors and discharge your debt, simple!

ok so what is your point exactly??

You have one day of details of my BK, just one day. I'll try to keep this short
To date my attorney has apologized to me just about every time we have spoke.
We gave the court more then they asked for from the beginning of my filing till just last week. Up until last week I have given 5 plastic tubs of documents that went back till mid 2001 that I had from an audit that I was involved with until 2007. I was asked for docs till 2004 from the TT, but it was easier to just give them everything I had. Oh and in the end of the audit it turned out that I owed a little over $2500.oo accountant fees were another story. Let me add I was at a total of 5 hours of deposition with them. I have said before this is my first time in a BK, but I don't even know what other info I could possibly hand over, I don't have anything else, I was given 3 pages of requests , 30 different line items and I produced every one he asked for and more. I personally think I did give full disclosure, and then some, but then again I though answering with the truth was right at the 341. Maybe I'm still missing this whole BK7 thing, really!! My attorney must be also, as of last week he said he won't be charging me going forward, he says he just can't take my money but just to be patient.

Thanks for your thoughts.

PS I did forget to mention that in the docs that I gave, there was also a home inventory that was done by the county sheriff less then a year ago regarding an order granted on a judgment I have, had.

And getting to the nitty gritty I gave the repair estimate for a leaking head gasket on a 2003 Ford Diesel truck to confirm the Galves wholesale value which was less then Black book wholesale, just to show how I got to the number I entered on my schedule, a 2600.00 difference. He said that it was "suspect" because my "opinion" was the condition of the vehicle. This truck was a work vehicle with just under 200,000 miles and the photo was attached. This is less then a 3500.oo truck. I don't own any other vehicles and haven't in the past 1 1/2 years.

This is why I asked my initial question, I honestly don't think I'm avoiding anything at all, but that's just me, am I getting reemed, I think so, that's just my opinion!

I answered these first so I could get back to Justbroke and most would be detailed already. Sorry for intruding on the thread !

[justbroke]

My attorney knew the TT would want them so it was all given prior to be asked. What doesn't make sense is what he asked me and got his 00 's twisted and hung up on

Trustees usually don't read all your paper before the 341 Meeting. The Trustee was probably trying to figure out what the real figure was, because your comps, appraisals, and all that paperwork confused him more than anything. If you even saw the comps and things, you could quite easily say that you believe the number on the papers. Did you do this because your lawyer said to be elusive? Just wondering.

The ire of the Trustee is usually reserved for those whom they believe are uncooperative. You may have just been the unlucky sole that the Trustee decided to question everything you present. In many Districts, they do question valuations if they are not straight out of a book (NADA, Black, Edmunds, Blue).

You're not intruding. We're inquisitive.

I think the bottom line is, and it always is... the Trustee smells "money". That's all. When they get to that point of thinking there's money in the case somewhere... they will get real grumpy if they don't find any. Any small perception that you're devaluing things to "hide" money (intentional or not), will make them more grumpy.

I hope that your attorney is able to calm the Trustee down, provide any additional information, and protect your exempt property.

[hereforinfo]

"just having fun or what" ..just a stupid comment .


But why wouldn't you answer with the value from the appraiser?
When I was sitting at the 341 the TT had the appraisal and comps in one hand and in the other he had other docs pertaining to the house I own. The couple of comments he made were in regards to the value of my home. Just before he asked me he specifically said "without any of this" and he waved all the papers he was holding, he said to me "what could your property sell for today" he was quite specific in his question and how he asked it of me. I answered with the truth, " I really don't know". I didn't answer with what the appraiser felt nor the Realtor obviously they haven't gotten it right in the past few years. If you know what any of your real property would have sold for I don't think you'd be here on the forum chirping away, if I knew I surly wouldn't be here!

That doesn't make sense.
In your eyes it must not, but you weren't at the 341 and you have no idea how much information I gave them before the 341. Yes, tax returns for 2 years and all bank, brokerage, insurance policies and retirement statements even Paypal and Ebay statements, for when the fire sales began there were loads of entries for them, for the same time frame. My attorney knew the TT would want them so it was all given prior to be asked. What doesn't make sense is what he asked me and got his 00 's twisted and hung up on

My comment was not stupid. It was a legitimate question based on the very limited information you told us.

I know EXACTLY what my house could sell for right now. I don't know what that has to do with your issues.

[OhioFiler]

My comment was not stupid. It was a legitimate question based on the very limited information you told us.

I know EXACTLY what my house could sell for right now. I don't know what that has to do with your issues.

5 posts.

[BEN]

[QUOTE=justbroke;316393]Trustees usually don't read all your paper before the 341 Meeting. The Trustee was probably trying to figure out what the real figure was, because your comps, appraisals, and all that paperwork confused him more than anything. If you even saw the comps and things, you could quite easily say that you believe the number on the papers. Did you do this because your lawyer said to be elusive? Just wondering.

Attorney said the same thing, he probably won't see the paperwork before the 341 but he will have everything he needs for when he was done. Well he did look at it and was quite specific in quite a few of his comments that pertained to the documents submitted. I also had another figure that was from the walk through with the bank who holds the 1st, I never submitted that one. They were far apart from each other and of course the furthest apart was just over 100k. He told me to be completely and totally honest and answer with the first answer I had for the question, as not to sit there and ponder the question. Maybe I need someone with the expertise of the person who thinks I'm having a good time here, I just wonder why they still own the home, maybe it should have been sold a couple of years ago, and are a member of this forum with the precise accuracy of there figures.


I thought so too, this is why I gave the repair estimate and the photo of the vehicle attached to the value sheet. He felt it was "suspect" in his exact words.


I do appreciate your educated comments and was hoping for some sort of clearer picture of this mess. On the flip side this is also why I have never posted I have sat here a read and read quite a bit before I filed and I think I had to be a member to see some files, this why I only have 5 posts Ohiofiler and after this is answered I probably will never post again just because I really have ran out of patience for dumb and stupid comments over the past few months.


This is the very reason I have asked the question I did from the beginning I am so baffled by the request for extension which was confirmed when my lawyer offered me him home and cell number if I needed to talk because he didn't know what to say with the latest from the TT.


Yes I do to but I'm just told over and over again to be patient and let it run it course. The icing was when my lawyer said the only good thing is the foreclosure will be put off longer and longer. That was also seen by me as pretty stupid and said so. The response I got was that was just my emotions speaking and really is a good thing coming out from all this.

Thank you for your attempt at trying to help me understand what this TT could have against my case.
I really have no idea at all what to expect going forward from here on out and was hoping to get some sort of scenario that could take place