Wrestling with whether or not to file

[Scottowl]

Hello everyone!

I have been lurking for quite awhile, and the people on this forum seem to have good sense about what is going on. I am going to make a long post, spell out my situation, and hope to get some unbiased thoughts.

My wife and I filed a Ch.13 case in 2000, which was converted to Chapter 7, filed in June, 2001. The Chapter 7 was discharged in July, 2002. I do not recall why the delay.

Since then, we have qualified for a mortgage and car loan. Unfortunately, we also qualified for a personal loan from Citibank for 9k (at 26.9%interest). There are also 5 other accounts totaling 9k. The minimum payments total $515 per month.

We have a mortgage that is $610, and car payment at $360. I also took out a 401k loan to be repaid at $80 per week.

We have been struggling to get through, until now. My wife is disabled with a neurological disease, and I have been missing work to care for her.

The normal income situation is $705 per month SS disability for her, and $3600 per month for me. I checked the means chart, and we are well under what is allowed in the county in Oregon where we live.

We have been scraping by, but we are losing our will to do that. We are not behind in any payments, and have never been late on one since the BK event in 2001. The 401k loan and car loan will be paid in 2012. We have been trying to get there, but I can't see us making it, particularly with my loss of income. Every hour on my paychecks are needed to keep this house of cards from collapsing.

As her condition is progressive, I see the possibility of my missing more time in the future. I am talking to the Senior and Disabled office to find a caregiver, but have gotten nowhere as of yet.

Another factor weighing on my mind is that my elderly father, who is widowed, listed me on the title of his automobiles and his mobile home. I have no control over these, and am wondering if the court would consider them as assets owned by me.

Also, I read somewhere you are only allowed to file Ch 7 three times in your life. Is that true?

The reasons for falling into this trap when I should have known better is that we both liked to play slot machines. As we are now broke, that habit has cured itself. It was the cause of the trouble in 2001 as well. We are both old enough to know better, but you know how that goes.

We have talked to CCS by phone, and they were not able to offer us much help. Stuff like 'Don't eat out', or 'Don't buy a lot of new clothes'. They admitted they could not significantly lower our payments.

If anyone has any suggestions, we would be interested in hearing them!

[InDebtNeedHelp]

Fill out Schedules I and J (be honest and realistic) and see where you stand:

http://www.uscourts.gov/bkforms/bankruptcy_forms.html#official

[LSUTiger32]

I don't mean to pry into your situation but if you make $3600 plus $705 which is $4305.....and I see expenses of.......

Mortgage $610
Auto $360
Debt service $515
401K loan $320

That leaves you $2500 a month so you should be more than fine. I understand about your wife but do what you have to do to be there for her AND keep your job. You do not want to be job hunting in this economy.

[music12]

it appears that you have a gambling problem. if that's the case, then the problem is not financial. to solve the problem you need to deal with your gambling. i hear it's considered a disease. go to gambling anonymous, get help for that whatever way you can. if you fix the source of your problem, the financial issues will fall into place. if you are not gambling right this second because you don't have the money to do it, then filing bk will do you no good because then you'll start right up again.

[frmrdwn]

My bk attorney has been practicing for 15 years in OR. I asked him if he ever had any problems with a client NOT receiving a discharge for a Chapter 7. He said that only happened once and it had something to do with gambling. Then he asked me if I had a gambling problem ... no, just a credit problem. But, my atty said that the trustee does look at where those charges are made and will want to know exactly where all money is going through receipts, bank statements and etc. So, if you do have a gambling problem you might want to make sure to address it before filing.

[Scottowl]

Deciding whether to file

Thanks to everybody who took time out to reply.

As far as my income, I listed my gross. Of course the net is somewhat less. The total net is closer to 2800, but the 401k loan is paid out of that.

We do have sufficient income to get by, but each day I miss decreases that income. That is what is scaring me right now. It used to be one or two days a month; now it's more like 5 or 6. Right there is the difference between us making it or not.

The gambling subject is duly noted by me. It seems funny to me that a judge would want to get into my business about it, especially after I have beat myself up over it so much. After all, it is a legal pursuit.

I suppose some smart guy could figure out a way to hide some money by claiming he lost it all gambling. If I was a smart guy, I would not be in this situation! Do they really assume you are committing fraud unless you can prove otherwise?

I will have that 401k loan and the car paid off inside of 3 years. Hopefully I can eliminate one or two small credit cards. So, if I can stick it out, I will emerge much better than if I file.

My wife and I have talked this over, and decided to save filing until a last resort, being as how we have not been late on one payment to anyone for over 8 years now. As bad as it seems for us now, we do realize we are blessed compared to what some are going through.

Does anyone know if Wells Fargo would allow us to defer one payment on our car loan? We have not even been late on 35 payments so far. Would they consider that fact when making a decision?

[LSUTiger32]

Thanks to everybody who took time out to reply.

As far as my income, I listed my gross. Of course the net is somewhat less. The total net is closer to 2800, but the 401k loan is paid out of that.

We do have sufficient income to get by, but each day I miss decreases that income. That is what is scaring me right now. It used to be one or two days a month; now it's more like 5 or 6. Right there is the difference between us making it or not.

The gambling subject is duly noted by me. It seems funny to me that a judge would want to get into my business about it, especially after I have beat myself up over it so much. After all, it is a legal pursuit.

I suppose some smart guy could figure out a way to hide some money by claiming he lost it all gambling. If I was a smart guy, I would not be in this situation! Do they really assume you are committing fraud unless you can prove otherwise?

I will have that 401k loan and the car paid off inside of 3 years. Hopefully I can eliminate one or two small credit cards. So, if I can stick it out, I will emerge much better than if I file.

My wife and I have talked this over, and decided to save filing until a last resort, being as how we have not been late on one payment to anyone for over 8 years now. As bad as it seems for us now, we do realize we are blessed compared to what some are going through.

Does anyone know if Wells Fargo would allow us to defer one payment on our car loan? We have not even been late on 35 payments so far. Would they consider that fact when making a decision?

If your wife gets $705 and your net take home is $2800 that means you are only bringing home $2100 of your $3600 a month job every month. I know you have the $320 a month on the 401K loan, but even still that seems high. You should be brining home more like $2600 a month even with the loan unless there are other things coming out the check besides insurance, taxes and the 401K loan. Maybe you have your dedections set too low? Do you get a large tax refund?

I would defintely call Wells Fargo and ask for it. I got one from mine so they defintely do it. Explain the situation with you wife, make sure they realize that you have been a customer and paid on time for nearly 3 years now. You should be able to get somewhere with that with a little fight.

I totally understand about the gambling issues, it's hit close to home for me. You have got to get that out of your life, even if it means moving where there aren't any or going to some hard core counseling. That will destroy you, I know first hand.