Judgement can't go into bankruptcy

[2manybills]

Honestly, usually when a party is representing themselves pro se, a lot of Judges or more lenient on their end.

I hope that a judgment has not been entered. It's just easier to deal with in the BK.

[music12]

Like if I went in asking for a raise, or if there was stuff going on in the office where they should reprehend people and they didn't. That kind of thing!!! I didn't mean to imply weird stuff, but I've heard that before.

i see! so you had to go ask for a raise 4 times because the first 3 they managed to convince you that you already got the raise??

i wish i had their skills, i'd be much further ahead in life now!

[2manybills]

No kidding. The one I always like and I was just talking about this one today - "I haven't taken a raise in 10 years". Sometimes I think, "Do you think I'm new?" Like I haven't been around for 22 years.

[music12]

Honestly, usually when a party is representing themselves pro se, a lot of Judges or more lenient on their end.

I hope that a judgment has not been entered. It's just easier to deal with in the BK.

but many judges see the pro se and decide it's time to be lenient towards the attorney on the other side. "poor attorney" they think, "has to deal with a pro se".

also some people think that if the pro se actually had a good case, some lawyer would take it. so not having a lawyer is already a strike against you.

[2manybills]

Remember as in any field, you are dealing with individuals. There are some really great attorneys and there are some that are not. There are some really great Judges and there are some that are not. There are great doctors, etc.

It is about integrity with who you are.

[music12]

you are right, 2manybills. problem is, though, that the harm that can come from ending up with a not-so-great judge or lawyer can be very serious and there are no remedies. they have all the power in the world and no accountability.

gosh, it's getting late. i'd better try to get all this lawyer/judge stuff out of my mind or i'll have nightmares! life is life, i guess. unfortunately, from my experiences over the past few years i made one resolution: to always do anything and everything in my power so as not to end up in court. while the law itself is beautiful, it just doesn't get applied.

[2manybills]

[QUOTE=

gosh, it's getting late. i'd better try to get all this lawyer/judge stuff out of my mind or i'll have nightmares! life is life, i guess. unfortunately, from my experiences over the past few years i made one resolution: to always do anything and everything in my power so as not to end up in court. while the law itself is beautiful, it just doesn't get applied.[/QUOTE]


I agree totally! Thanks music. I enjoy the challenge and love to do the research if we can help some folks out here. I've been fortunate to have good friends in the legal field and if I can pay a little of it forward, why not!

Have a good night!

[MSbklawyer]

Most judges that I have seen go out of their way to protect the rights of pro se litigants.

But if a judge becomes an advocate, he, ipso facto ceases to be a neutral.

[DeadManCrawling]

Most judges that I have seen go out of their way to protect the rights of pro se litigants.

But if a judge becomes an advocate, he, ipso facto ceases to be a neutral.

There are many precedents that require judges to give much leeway to pro se folks. You are allowed to make mistakes an attorney would be crucified for.

As far as attorneys, remember: Attorneys work for the client. If they did not do everything in their power to win the case, they would be guilty of (at the least) a lapse in ethics.

Apply the same logic to yourselves: If you hire an attorney, his/her job is to represent you. If the opposing side has a hole in their armor, it is your attorney's job to find it, exploit it, and WIN THE CASE.

To cry foul when an attorney does their job is not really an honest appraisal of the situation.

Of course I am sorry this didn't go Eli's way, but a little more preparation, or hiring an attorney may well have resulted in a different outcome.

If you had the chance to perform brain surgery on your spouse and save 80k, or pay an experienced doctor 80k for the job, which would you choose?

I know the analogy isn't a great one, but some things are worth spending the money on.

Not meant to rock the apple cart, but to add a dose of reality.

Best wishes to all,

-dmc

[dingdong]

I think you should appeal the decision, ask for proof of the so called payment that was made if you are sure you did not make one and move the case to superior court. SOL is an affirmative defense, raise it in a court where the judge knows more about collection law and tell the CA to pound sand.

If the debt was indeed out of statute and you never made another payment on it for 6 years, a judge with knowledge of consumer law should vacate the last judgement.

At least I would hope so. Frickin SOL is SOL, and the fact that the CA had no proof, or didn't present it and didn't quibble about dropping fees, etc, means they probably didn't have adequate proof that the SOL was tolled by that mysterious payment.

I would fight it. But I am a B**ch! ( well, not really, but I can play one on TV)

[AngelinaCatHub]

Interesting thread. Just to lighten the Judge vs Lawyer vs pro se, I received a default judgment on a person who attempted Title theft of my deceased Mother's property.

This person appealed and she had an attorney with her, the Judge was a lady, and we had this hearing in a chamber not a Courtroom. It was very informal but recorder and bailiff present. The Lawyer told the Judge first off, that the person was never properly served and did not know of the hearing and the default judgment should be vacated. Well, the Lady Judge calmly looked through her file cover and pulled a document out, handed it to the Lawyer and asked him if he had ever seen this, and was that the person's signature? The lawyer's face turned really red, showed it to the person, the person said "it doesn't look like it", and the Judge said, "This is your summons for that hearing, It is a fax you sent to my office, from your phone number, you wrote your explanation on it and signed it. You must appear at a hearing and you have just committed Perjury" then she turned to the Lawyer and before she said anything, he was grovelling all over with "I'm sorry, I didn't know, etc.etc.". The Judge said no more and stated the Judgment would stand and dismissed us all.

I was never so entertained in my life. The Judgment was for $1200, I levied on her car worth $6500, I showed at auction and was the only bidder at minimum bid of $1700, and only satisfied $8 of her Judgment. We drove that car for four years and we called it Victory as a nick name. In theory I could levy again until the $1200 less 8 was satisfied, but I let it go as I got all my loss back and a profit as well. I got my pound of flesh so to speak. 'Hub

P.S. It does not pay to lie to a Judge. They usually already know the facts.

[music12]

very entertaining!! thanks for lightening things up, i couldn't take my own seriousness any more.

how did the bid of $1700 satisfy only $8? my math must be going nuts...

[123ABC]

Not true. i currently have 3 liens on my home due to cc debt judgements. All debt is being discharged in bankruptcy and then once i am discharged I have to simply pay an addisitional 199.00 filing fee to file my dishcharge with the county my judgements are in and the liens will be removed.

However if you own no property and have no income technically you are judgement proof...

[eli4625]

Whew...

Boy did I open a can of worms. I didn't have an attorney and won't have one when I file BK because I can't afford it. I am struggling just to get the monies together to file BK and take the credit course.

As for the hearing, it was in the judges chambers. Just the judge and the law firm rep representing Arrow Finacial. I was sworn in, and then the judge had the attorney for the collection agency speak. After he was done she asked me if I had anything to say. I said he was correct on everything but the payment issue. The attorney then asked me if I had ever planned on repaying this debt and that is when I said I don't pay collection agencies.

That is when the judge said she thought the amount of interest was out of line and that she would reduce it. I brought up the bank freeze which she said she would release if the attorney said okay. He did, but said he wanted something. She asked how much, he said $150 she said okay. She then commented that by reducing the amount it would be better for me, but that she could rule on my motion.

I can't afford an appeal...

UPDATE: Got a letter in the mail today from the law firm stating the agreement to pay $60 a month. Funny they made sure I got it, but not so follow thru on getting the original summons.

[music12]

so you were under oath but the attorney wasn't. not funny!

i would take my sweet time signing anything. you are about to file bk anyway, so save those $60 for the filing fee (though if the filing fee is high for you, ask the court to waive it - it sounds like you would qualify).