Can I join ya in the 60 day club?!!

[music12]

I have found cases in other States where it states that a "judgment lien" recorded on real property is not discharged in the BK. I'm going to look on Westlaw and see what the BK Code says.

That all seems so odd to me. No sign of justbroke yet?

yeah, that would mean that the judgment can be satisfied only as far as the lien allows. the rest of the judgment is discharged.

pls keep us posted about what you find on westlaw.

maybe somebody should pm justbroke...

[liz417]

WhoooooHooooo!!!!! Welcome to the 60 day club!!!

[eddiep]

glad to hear your 341 went well!

I also have a lien on my property from a credit union. The debt will be discharged in bk (341 tomorrow) but we have to have an additional hearing to remove the lien. It has to be done during the bk and will cost an additional $400 in legal fees as it is not included in bk fees.

[2manybills]

[justbroke]

Although it may appear to be true, I don't happen to read or post in every thread. LOL

From what I understand, if a Judgment Lien has been recorded, then you need to file a Motion to Avoid Lien under 11 USC 522, as posted above. This means that the lien must impair some other exemption. In Florida, our homesteads (primary residence) is protected 100%, so a judgment lien on a home is useless in our State. However, you still need to "do all the paperwork" -- so to speak -- and first get an Order from the bankruptcy court avoiding the judgment lien. Then you have to run over to yoru local District/Circuit court and file the order with them to have the lien removed.

The only distinction I'll make is the difference between just a regular judgment and a judgment lien that's been actually recorded. Now, I only learned about these because I prepared two 522(f) motions to quash some liens on my personal property (CitiFinancial... blood suckers). However, their lien wasn't perfected. I was also worried about an apparent judgment that they attempted to get, but apparently the summons was never served on me because they spelled my name completely wrong. LOL Anyhow, I challenged their claim directly on imperfection, and was granted my motion to change them to unsecured. I may still need to do a 522(f) motion later anyhow... for good measure.

[want2save]

Recorded Judments and Real Estate

I don't know if a recorded judgment on real property must be released by the creditor after BK or not, but I do know that once a lien is recorded in the county of (many States) that lien is a matter of record and will attach to any new property you attempt to purchase. This means if you "walk away" from the property and 5 years later attempt to buy a home, a run of your name will pick up the lien. If you are applying for a loan most lenders will require it be paid before the close of the new escrow. Also, the recorded judgment is a matter of public record and will show on your credit report unless released.

want2Save (Escrow Officer for 40 years in CA)

[2manybills]

That's right want2save. That why it is important to handle it in the BK Court, so it doesn't follow you around. On top of which, the judgment can be renewed for another 10 years.

[music12]

huh? i am so confused. after a judgment is discharged in bk, the judgment creditor can't renew it because it would violate the bk code and the discharge. i hope 2manybills is wrong here!

and want2save, i am even more confused. i thought a lien attaches to specific property. are you saying that if someone has no real estate before bk, so that the judgment lien is not attached to anything, then if after bk they buy a home suddenly the lien is against the new home?? that just doesn't make any sense. it makes bk completely pointless.

btw, what's an escrow officer exactly?

[justplaintired]

Welcome aboard! Let your 60 days go quickly and smoothly along with all us 60 dayers! I almost to my 30 day mark, that leaves me 30 to go!

[2manybills]

music: in Ca, it is called an "Abstract of Judgment". It does not record on specific property, it records on your name.

We just had a case, where the guy was so ticked off, they recorded the abstract in every County of the State of California.

I may be wrong on the renewal of the judgment after BK. You know me, I'll ask around and check Westlaw. The most important part is to get rid of the lien now.

[want2save]

An escrow officer collects all documents, monies, takes instructions and transfers property, monies and records documents, deeds, mortgages, etc.

Yes, if you have a lien of record THAT IS NOT RELEASED of record, it immediately attches to any real property you purchase in any County where the lien is recorded. Now if a BK enables you to require the creditor release the lien of record then there is not a problem. I don't know BK law so someone else will have to answer this question.

When a loan is paid in full the lender records a Release Of Mortage, or in States where Deeds of Trust are used, a Deed of Reconveyance removes the lien of the lender. A judgment is removed from the public records with a Release of Lien being recorded.

[music12]

2manybills, please let us know the results of your westlaw research!!

i do have another question, which is: if a judgment creditor files a judgment lien or abstract, do they notify the debtor? if not, how do you find out if something has been filed/recorded?

[2manybills]

At least in California, a copy of an Abstract is sent to the judgment debtor.

I'll let you know what I find.

[want2save]

I had many cases over the years when folks were unaware of a recorded lien against them. If you order free credit report each year that should tell you as it will show under Public Records on the report. Normally creditors have a lot of contact with the debtor before this happens, and in fact have to sue and be awarded the judgment. However, tax liens, including personal property tax liens i.e. boats, airplanes, etc. sometimes pop up on the record with the parties saying they never received a bill.

[2manybills]

That's correct. Although in Orange County, liens for taxes for boats etc. show up on your property tax record on the County Assessor's website.