Attorney Batting Practice�One, Two, Three�Opinions Please!

[HakunaMatata]

[fooked]

I actually interviewed 5... maybe try two more?

I received different opinions from each of them... the one I just retained gave me the "warm fuzzy" feeling like he knew what he was talking about... and was confident that I'm a 7 (rental income was pushing me over the median)...

I'd say interview one or two more... but then again, I'm a newb

[MSbklawyer]

Your #3 attorney is right about recent credit card charges. They are not per se nondischargeable unless they are for luxury goods or cash advances of $825 or more. 11 USC 523(a)(2)(C).

But when you file bankruptcy so soon after making credit card charges that you apparently knew you were never going to pay back, you open yourself up to all kinds of potential "bad faith" challenges from aggressive creditors. The end result is that those recent charges are nondischargeable, but you also risk leaving a bad taste in the judge's mouth about you in the event you have other challenges. IMHO, if it's practical, it's always best to put 90 days between your last credit card charge and the filing of your bk petition or to confess the nondischargeability of the recent charges. Sometimes it's not practical tho. I have done it both ways for clients depending on the circumstances. It sounds like you're in good hands with #3.

[NoMoreCards]

The advice you received from #3, is the same advice I received from my attorney (also in Michigan). I had to charge part of my house insurance weeks before filing, as I had no way to pay it and I could not allow the policy to lapse. So I charged it, and my attorney says I should not have to worry about it, as it was a necessary expense instead of a luxury item.

Based on what you have said, I would go with door #3!

I wish you the best.

[HakunaMatata]

Your #3 attorney is right about recent credit card charges. They are not per se nondischargeable unless they are for luxury goods or cash advances of $825 or more. 11 USC 523(a)(2)(C).

But when you file bankruptcy so soon after making credit card charges that you apparently knew you were never going to pay back, you open yourself up to all kinds of potential "bad faith" challenges from aggressive creditors. The end result is that those recent charges are nondischargeable, but you also risk leaving a bad taste in the judge's mouth about you in the event you have other challenges. IMHO, if it's practical, it's always best to put 90 days between your last credit card charge and the filing of your bk petition or to confess the nondischargeability of the recent charges. Sometimes it's not practical tho. I have done it both ways for clients depending on the circumstances. It sounds like you're in good hands with #3.

Your insight is greatly appreciated! Thank you!!

The charges that were made in recent months were standard for me. I've used this card for years in lieu of cash and my May-July spending pattern was not atypical. I have spreadsheets demonstrating that I charged between $700-1100/month for the past few years. This includes necessities (gas, food, medical, prescription dog food, dry cleaning, household supplies, mobile phone, etc). The credit card statements aren't particularly exciting. They include basic expenses; although, there are two gifts that concerned me...a group baby shower gift $197 and bday concert tickets for my little brother $123. Attorney #3 didn't think these were issues especially since I had already paid back more than this combined amount. I've never had a cash advance.

The major change (possible red flag?) is that the card hasn't been paid in full as it was in previous months/years. I endured an emergency vet care expense of $500 which would have prevented me from fully paying off the card. Shortly following this, I learned that my sewer will require $3-6k in additional work. Hence, the foreclosure/bankruptcy contemplation commenced.

I definitely didn't foster mal intentions (I'm still not entirely sold on the BK idea. If foreclosure didn't seemingly have more austere effects than BK, I could pay my credit card debt during this process). I've continued to pay on the card (more than the minimum due, yet far from eliminating the debt) and I've even returned items that I could (crediting the card and repurchasing in cash). If I had fraudulent intentions (admittedly tempting, yet unacceptable in my world), I would have purchased a much needed new vacuum (this would be classified "luxury" to me) and a television (I don't even own one). I imagine the judge doesn't care.

In sum...
While my spending habits don't differ from previous months (and my purchases aren't considered "luxury"), my payment history does. This timeline could readily be interpreted to suggest I had "bad faith" intentions which is not the case. If I follow the advice of attorney #3, it doesn't appear that 90 days would pass between active CC use and current non-use (I imagine this will put me somewhere around 30-45 days since I ceased activity). Do you suggest I further explore confessing to nondischargeability?

[HakunaMatata]

I actually interviewed 5... maybe try two more?

I received different opinions from each of them... the one I just retained gave me the "warm fuzzy" feeling like he knew what he was talking about... and was confident that I'm a 7 (rental income was pushing me over the median)...

I'd say interview one or two more... but then again, I'm a newb

Thanks Fooked!

Like you, I get some type of warm and fuzzy feeling with Attorney #3. I imagine this stems from his confidence and willingness to assist. He treated me differently than the others which I really appreciated. He pieced apart my situation to fully understand the big picture. He appears to be very knowledgeable and forthcoming.

Thus far, all three attorneys have come with recommendations (one from a fellow BKer, one from an attorney friend, and one from a CPA friend). I may branch out on my own to further explore my options; although, I'm leaning toward retaining #3. This process has been both exciting and frustrating!! I love receiving different perspectives; although, conflicting information can take its toll on a person!

[HakunaMatata]

The advice you received from #3, is the same advice I received from my attorney (also in Michigan). I had to charge part of my house insurance weeks before filing, as I had no way to pay it and I could not allow the policy to lapse. So I charged it, and my attorney says I should not have to worry about it, as it was a necessary expense instead of a luxury item.

Based on what you have said, I would go with door #3!

I wish you the best.

Thanks for sharing your experience and opinion! It's comforting to know others have received similar advice (especially a fellow Michigander!).

Hmmm...I wonder if we've been dealing with the same attorney?!

[music12]

it sounds like you liked #3 the most, though you also liked #2.

it's important whether you like an attorney, not just because you have to interact with them but because if you like them, it's likely that the trustee/judge also like them, and that could be important in itself.

[Crozier]

You experience is very similar to mine, only I am in Southern California. The attorney I liked the most said something very peculiar. After we spoke for about an hour, shared stories about kids, the world, sports, etc, he mentioned that he was "tired" of practicing BK law. He said he was actually looking to get into another aspect of law. While I felt he was 100% sincere, I was completely taken aback by his admission. To me, it's like hearing your doctor say, "I don't know if being a surgeon is for me anymore." Just as you go under!

[music12]

funny!

today i was at a coffee shop ordering hot cocoa. the guy got confused and almost made me coffee. caught himself in time, but then said he has been there for 7 hours straight and didn't feel like making my cocoa! i told him "you're fired!" and he made really good hot cocoa after that

[MSbklawyer]

Do you suggest I further explore confessing to nondischargeability?

Only if your creditors start barking about your recent charges, but I'd defer to your attorney's advice on that question.

[liz417]

I consulted with 6 different attorneys before I filed. By the end, I was starting to doubt myself and the knowledge I learned on this forum, in the end, I found an attorney that I felt I could trust. I actually ended up liking 2 of the 6 attorneys and couldn't make up my mind (both very experienced in BK), but the tie breaker was that my current attorney would be at my 341 vs. the other attorney sending a "stand in" (which I know is normal, but it was important to me to have MY attorney present at my 341). In your situation, attorney#3 sounds like a good choice, but I would set up a couple of more consultations just to ease your mind.]
Good Luck!

[HHM]

When you interview attorneys, don't forget to ask about how the case is actually preped. Here is some good insight about some questions to ask an attorney

http://askmethner.com/?p=609

[HakunaMatata]

it sounds like you liked #3 the most, though you also liked #2.

it's important whether you like an attorney, not just because you have to interact with them but because if you like them, it's likely that the trustee/judge also like them, and that could be important in itself.

I absolutely agree! A solid working relationship is imperative. When I explore the comfort levels I experienced with #2 and #3, I realize #2 seemed to fit into friend-esque category while #3 provided respectable understanding and guidance.

I think my biggest problem right now is I'm questioning my decision and I feel guilty! This may be hindering attorney selection OR I simply haven't met with the best-suited attorney. I know I'm a hard-sell. If I was sold on the BK path, this would be so much easier!

[HakunaMatata]

You experience is very similar to mine, only I am in Southern California. The attorney I liked the most said something very peculiar. After we spoke for about an hour, shared stories about kids, the world, sports, etc, he mentioned that he was "tired" of practicing BK law. He said he was actually looking to get into another aspect of law. While I felt he was 100% sincere, I was completely taken aback by his admission. To me, it's like hearing your doctor say, "I don't know if being a surgeon is for me anymore." Just as you go under!

Wow!! You're interviewing a BK attorney and he admits he doesn't want to practice BK??!!! While the level of openness and comfort is commendable, his selling platform is far from desirable. I'd be terrified of his Trustee interactions. "Why yes, Mister Trustee, my client is insolvent. I don't wish to discuss the millions of dollars in property he has hidden because bankruptcy bores me".