OH MY GEEZ...filed pro se and have some questions

[Crazy]

Hello All,

You guys are GREAT!! Ok brief discription. My husband and I talked about filing bankruptcy for a month or so. Tried to keep up, but can't. Ok, so started contacting attorney's, found out about deadline. We couldn't get an attorney to file before new law.

OK..so it's 10-12-05 and the deadline is 10-14-05. I go online and purchase the "DO IT YOURSELF" It has all the forms and such. Spend 2 days..with hardly no sleep and get it done and FILED BY 10-14-2005.

Then, I find these boards..and start researching and have found a few mistakes that I'm not sure how to fix, so here are my questions.

1. My case is on pacer, shows filed, and date of 341 meeting is 12-13-2005, however under FLAGS: it shows "PRO SE" Is this just a formality? Has anyone elsed filed PRO SE and looked there case up on PACER?

2. I noticed by viewing other cases on pacer, that people show on Schedule B...their checking account and Cash on Hand, I showed this too, but I noticed most people also filled out a SCHEDULE C, in which they listed checking account balance, Cash on Hand, Personal Clothes, etc...as EXEMPT on SCHEDULE C...We however did not file the SCEDULE C..well we did, cause they require us to file it BLANK...I'm now thinking we should have filed some expemptions. What do you think?

3. On SCHEDULE J...(Current Expenditures of Individual Debtors) we listed the bare minimums and included our loan payments on vehicles we would be re-affirming...IS THAT RIGHT to list the payments you are RE-AFFIRMING under like AUTO we have listed 925.00 which is our payment on both vehicles and will be re-affirming them..they are not late at all.

4. ALSO on SCHEDULE J we listed 587.00 under OTHER: and put Credit Card Payment...I know that isn't suppose to be there.

FINAL QUESTION:
I can see that I would have filled these forms out a slight bit differently, had I had the time to do my Research, but we are filing PRO SE...I don't want to raise ANY RED FLAGS...so should I file amended schedules now...or wait until 341 to talk to trustee...and see what he says? If we wait to talk to trustee and he doesn't think anything is wrong and no crediters show up...should we just go with that...or if he does see this is wrong...will he let us submit the amended schedules then? Or will he just DISMISS IT???

ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS WOULD BE GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank You So Much

[quest42]

If I were you, I'd file some amendments...

You have some time now to do it right... you can file any amendments you want to file... ask your local court clerk about it... I've been told there is a $28 fee when filing any amendments. I'd say it is worth the peace-of-mind. Your record is public on PACER for over 10 years...

You could LOSE your exemptions if you don't file right.

I'd suggest you do it a week or more before your 341 meeting, if possible. That will establish that you're acting in good faith... pro se maybe gets a little slack, since we are not professionals at doing this...

The court clerks in my court are friendly and helpful, when they are not swamped...

Which D-I-Y package did you use? Did you like it?

[FLGirl]

I filed pro se on Oct 12... similar situation to yours (last minute), and also realized there were many mistakes/errors/unintentional omissions. I've been freaking out and stressed over it for the past few weeks now, and finally I went to Legalmatch.com and posted my request for help in amending, and found a kind lawyer who will be reviewing and fixing my mistakes for $250! That's a very low fee considering the lawyer I talked to in person who wanted $1000, and another from legal match that wanted $850-1200 (but he did say he'd charge me a portion of whatever money I saved - my big mistake was having money in my account from my tax refund).

In talking to these lawyers, esp the one today for $250, there is so much we don't know when filing pro se, no matter what research you do... and so I think you need to get a lawyer to help you. I am much calmer now, knowing that I can let HIM worry about this and fix it, and whatever happens, happens. I'll survive. I found out also from one of them that the Trustee assigned to my case is an accountant, not a lawyer, and "not a jerk" like the others I could have had! PHEW! That should help! I was worried about getting some real meanie.

Also,, the lawyer said that it's not a big deal... that this happens all the time and "they" understand the mistakes... but just need to fix them beforehand and they like to see you had a lawyer to help you.

Legalmatch is pretty cool... Good luck!

[Minnymouth]

Yes you need to file your amendments and corrections before the 341 meeting or Trustee will either dismiss or reschedule your hearing (more than likely - dismiss).

If it is not done correctly, you are only "hurting" yourself.

Minny

[StaciMM]

I agree-you need to amend. I *think* you only pay for amendments if you are adding creditors.

Regarding expenses, you cannot claim creditor payments that would be discharged. You are correct to list car payments, etc. that will continue after the BK. You also want to list realistic expenses-if you are living off of noodles and peanut butter right now because you're trying to make your credit card payments, would you have a more reasonable grocery allowance if you did not need to bother with the credit cards?

If you do not amend, you will likely end up in a 13. When you consider your real expenses, what is the end result each month? Is there less than $100 remaining? If not, a 13 may still be in your future, but at least it would be more reasonable.

[Crazy]

Another Question

Thanks for all the helpful hints...Keep them coming if anyone has anymore input...

I went and seen the lien holder of our vehicles we are re-affirming today...he is going to change the loan to 12% interest from 10%, but finance it out for a little longer period, which will lower the payment by about 100.00 per month. He is going to draw the paper work up today, so our first payment will be November 26. IS THIS THE RIGHT THING TO DO...GET THE RE-AFFIRMED AGREEMENT DONE AND START PAYING BEFORE MY 241 MEETING???


Thanks Again for all the help guys.

[quest42]

... IS THIS THE RIGHT THING TO DO...GET THE RE-AFFIRMED AGREEMENT DONE AND START PAYING BEFORE MY 241 MEETING??? ...

Can they do that? (Change your interest rate?) Can't you just keep making the payments? Were you behind on paying that debt?

SOME states/districts do not even require any reaffirmation... see NOLO Chapter 7 book, page 7/14 for the list... It looks like around 40% require reaffirmation, and about 60% do NOT.

I've kept current on my car payments, but not much else, for the past two years... The balance is over $4,000 and the value is under $3,000 so if they want to up my interest rate, they can have it back!

[AAAArt]

Crazy, I'm assuming that you want the lower payment so you are willing to pay a higher interest rate. Be careful that the change doesn't push you from chap. 7 to chap. 13. If you can make the payments as they are now, you are better off just leaving the re-affirmation take place. Unless you have considerable equity, the lender would be stupid not to take it. If you're upside down on the car, then they'll be happy with any re-affirmation.
Be wary of people trying to help. They may genuinely want to, but realize that their first interest has to be to their company and right now, your first interest has to be for you and your family.
If you need to lower the payments and will still show no disposable income, then it might be a good deal, otherwise, I think that you are wise to question.

[Crazy]

No...the lower payment was just a fluke....we told the banker we wanted to have our 2 vehicles..plus the camper under this loan paid off in 4 years...So he ran the figures..and said "OK..at 12%...for 4 years..that actually lowers your payment by just under 100.00" I WAS LIKE " 12%...we have 10% now..the banker was like "yea, but your credit isn't as good now as it was last year" I didn't want to argue with him..he gave us the loan originally because he is a friend and our credit wasn't that good a year ago.

BUT...here is the problem and the reason I'm not BALKING much about it...See the Credit line was established, using our 2 vehicles..and Camper as collateral and the credit line comes up to Expire each year on December 31. So technically, we owe a balloon at the end of the year, but our banker is willing to switch it from a LINE OF CREDIT...to a regular loan....

I hope this helps clarify....Please let me know what you think. OH AND...we are VERY UPSIDE DOWN...Collateral VS. LOAN AMOUNT.... Our Loan amount is 57,500.00 and our Collateral is worth about 30,000.00. But the banker is a friend and knows we will pay....always have paid them on any loan we took with that bank. Never late....the one bill we always paid first.

All the help is much appreciated,


CRAZY

[quest42]

Sorry -- I was jumping to conclusions and got worried... Sounds like you know what to do now.

[Lightning]

Why do you want to pay this much for a couple of cars and a camper that lose value every year? By the time you're done paying off the loans, you'll have paid so much in interest, it would probably make you sick.

What are all these things going to be worth in 4 years? Will they all be in great condition needing little to no repairs? Will you be keeping them for many years beyond the four it takes to pay them off?

Reaffirming on a house or even a single vehicle is one thing. Reaffirming two cars and a camper at a higher interest rate that you're upside down on just doesn't make any sense.

[StaciMM]

I agree w/ Lightning here. Agreeing to repay $57,000 + interest for vehicles worth 1/2 of that does not sound like a good financial move. A better option would be to let them go in BK and get something else that will cost you less in the long run.

Edited to add:

I believe the trustee has to sign off on a reaffirmation agreement, and I would be very surprised if he let you reaffirm this loan. To be approved, you have to ascert that the renewed loan will not pose a financial hardship. If you insist that you can repay $57,000 for $30,000 worth of goods, the trustee might just think you're better off in a ch. 13. (Where the loan amount could be crammed down, so you'd repay $30,000 plus a % of the rest, and that would free up some $$ each month for a little to go to your other creditors as well.

[Crazy]

I'm still not sure what to do now...I'm wondering if it's ok to re-do the loan like that and start making payment....Is that something the trustee will look at as positive...I mean we are re-affirming 1/2 of our total debt in one loan.

Crazy

[StaciMM]

Now that I recall you are Pro Se (doh!) you will have to get the trustee's approval to reaffirm. It actually sounds, though, that the loan officer is trying to work you into a new loan-perhaps to work around that? He has to be aware that this is a horrible deal for you!

Some things to consider-they cannot take the vehicles right now because of the automatic stay. To get around that, the lender would have to file a motion for relief-and you'd be notified of the hearing. If you're paying $925/mo now for the vehicles, you can certainly do better. If you have good job stability, you could contact 722redemption.com regarding their replacement program. If you could possibly survive on 1 car temporarily, you could possibly finance something else after discharge and still be better off longterm.

On the other hand, a ch. 13 may not be such a bad option for you. If you really want to keep the vehicles you have, it could cram down so you're repaying the value and all of your unsecured creditors (including the overage on the vehicle loan) would get a little something also.

I'm still not sure what to do now...I'm wondering if it's ok to re-do the loan like that and start making payment....Is that something the trustee will look at as positive...I mean we are re-affirming 1/2 of our total debt in one loan.

Crazy

[Crazy]

Ok..remember guys..this was a LINE OF CREDIT...so our line of credit was 57,500.00, and we were only required to secure 35,000.00 of it..which the bank used our 2 cars and camper for....We maxed the credit line out buying inventory for our DBA business....So, I guess in a sense...35,000 of the loan is for a secured part and the remander of the amount up to the 57,500 was for inventory. This inventory, we got STUCK WITH..which is why we are filing BK in the first place.

A distribution company ordered 30,000 worth of product...and only paid around a 1/3 of it..and we delivered only a 1/3 of it......and asked us to hold remaining inventory for a couple months..and they would take it and PAY for it then...they never took and won't take it....so we had to eat the bill. Dated inventory...and it is now as of October OUT of date..and we can't re-sale ourselves...

Hope this makes sense...fill free to ask questions...and thanks for the help...

Crazy