slightly confused at sch. J

[bxphae]

I'm not reaffirming any auto loan, does that mean that will effect my Sch. J? I'm roughly $900 in the hole every month with my vehicles, but without a reaffirmation, I'll have a positive desposable monthly income AFTER I file when I surrender both vehicles. Does that mean a chp 13 or chp 7, or are they talking about disposable income prior and up to filing?

[mom2three09]

I'm no expert (so take my advice for what it is), but I'm pretty sure you can say that your intention is to reaffirm a debt and then when it comes to signing the reaffirmation agreement just not sign it. This is what we are doing with our mortgage... our letter of intent states we are reaffirming but we don't plan on signing anything unless we absolutely have to.

Also, you could finance something else to drive before filing. That's what we had to do as we surrendered our lease thru Chrysler, but still needed something reliable to drive (and also needed the payment so we wouldn't have disposible income) so we bought something else with a payment we can realistically afford.

[bxphae]

wow, so I assume then that schedule J is a projected disposable income and not your current?

Thank goodness my roommates moving out at the end of this month then, now all of the household expenses and rent are on me.

[notforsale]

I was under the impression that the sch j is your current state not the future.

[bxphae]

I was under the impression that the sch j is your current state not the future.

I'm waiting to hear back on my attorney, but I was anxious and called two other attorney's.

What they said and you said match. If I still have posession of both vehicles at the time it's filed, they must be reported on my Schedule J, regardless if I reaffirm or surrender.


Which works out best for me, but now I"m more in the whole since my roommate moves out at the end of this month, favoring a chp7 even more

Anyone else have insight on the Schedule J?

Thanks guys for your assistance!

[justbroke]

I'm not reaffirming any auto loan, does that mean that will effect my Sch. J? ?

This depends on the local Trustee, U.S. Trustee, and customs/procedures. In many districts, the Trustee will not like seeing debt you are surrendering (and not even paying on at the time of discharge), on Schedule J. This has been argued and argued and there is still a split amongst the Courts.

The U.S. Trustees, in many Districts, have argued that you have to amend Form B22A (the means test) to indicate that you're not making payments on surrendered debt. However, there is very good caselaw in almost all Districts (and Appeals Courts) showing that the means test is mechanical and you do include surrendered debt payments on the Means Test (Form B22A).

However, the majority says that your intent to surrender means that you can not put those payments on Schedule J. Some U.S. Trustees will add the payments (for surrendered debt) back into your disposable income to see if it's positive. If it's over $180 (or so), then they'll try to push you into a Chapter 13.

This is still a heavily contentious situation. If you are over-the-median, you are likely to get more scrutiny on this. In the end, it all depends on local customs, how aggressive the U.S. Trustee is, and any precedence in your District/Circuit.

For what it's worth, think of Schedule J as a "current" view with a skew towards the future. If you stopped paying your vehicle before filing... then you're not currently making those payments. Understand?

[HakunaMatata]

This depends on the local Trustee, U.S. Trustee, and customs/procedures. In many districts, the Trustee will not like seeing debt you are surrendering (and not even paying on at the time of discharge), on Schedule J. This has been argued and argued and there is still a split amongst the Courts.

For what it's worth, think of Schedule J as a "current" view with a skew towards the future. If you stopped paying your vehicle before filing... then you're not currently making those payments. Understand?

Haven't they had four years to figure this out?

I see validity on both sides. Sure, disposable income may increase if debt obligations are not reaffirmed. Disposable income may decrease as well. Compared to my current mortgage payment, rent will actually cost more on a monthly basis -reducing my disposable income (the courts don't factor in the enormous amount of repairs my house requires).

By chance, has negative equity been a factor in any of these cases?

A view with a skew...I like it!

[bxphae]

wow this is very confusing. After listing all of my income and monthly expenses (not including unsecured crap of course):

if I decided the option to reaffirm, it would get DENIED because that would leave me an a deficit still after filing. BUT if I am denied reaffiramation, that would put me at a surplus of roughly $350 if it is a PROJECTED monthly expense and would force me into a chapter 13?

[justbroke]

if I decided the option to reaffirm, it would get DENIED because that would leave me an a deficit still after filing. BUT if I am denied reaffiramation, that would put me at a surplus of roughly $350 if it is a PROJECTED monthly expense and would force me into a chapter 13?

Can't answer that, but based on your intentions, you'd qualify, so just don't worry about it. Yes, it gets confusing if you start thinking about all the different things going on, but the Statements I made above pertain to people who were actually surrendering property by indicating such on their forms and by stopping payments on the property as well.