Any insight of what to expect? please.

[r00257]

My dear BK buddies.
Let me first say none of us are proud we are here. It took me a long time to file. I guess like you, hitting rock bottom and providing for yourself and or family trumps any pride or promises we made when borrowing money. the celebrations we cheer is that of desperate resolution which to each person here is a major victory. So cheers to you who have a new start. I hope to be amongst you but we are hitting a bump.

It was only after my CC companies raised their rates due to my debt to income ratio. Not one late payment!!! They thought my wife and I were a risk with high CC limits. My wife and my credit FICA scores before we filed were both over 780 and were down due to the debt. ratio. We just couldn't keep up with the 90K in CC. We were basically living off of our credit cards after unexpected birth of twins 2 years ago (with a new home). We already had high balances on some of our cards. We were able to make payments until all the credit cards % rates went from 6% and 7% to over 25%. One credit card bill went from $224 to $698. Others did similar. Disputed bills from the mid 90s were included in BK as well (with penalties and interest for over 14 years). Anyway our unsecured debt came to $120K.

We had filed for CH 7 in May.
Our 341 meeting in June had the UST THERE!! WOW. that was not fun.

In our experience 3 cases were in a small room at one time. One person went first and it took about 6 minutes. Then our case was called and the UST came in. The UST was grilling us for over 45 minutes on debts occurred. I felt like I was in a surreal dream. I didnt' have the answers to the questions she had, I wasnt' prepared for her to be there or to go back 3 years into our finances. Her primary focus was questioning why we took out a second mortgage on our house before moving two years ago. After the meeting, we provided proof that it was for down payment of our new house while we sold our old one.
The equity in the house went to pay off the second mortgage. All bank docs are in perfect order.

The local trustee said it made sense and was acceptable.
We were due to get discharged this week. But on Friday we received a letter from a UST Stating abuse 707b (2).

Will I get more information sent within a week (as I read in another post).
If they think we have disposable income we don't really. our mortgage just went up last month $100 due to escrow. Would that be taken into consideration though we filed with the old mortgage?

Any thoughts on what to expect? Are they trying to force us into Chpt 13? Will it be dismissed. And what happens when it gets dismissed. What do your creditors do - outside of pitchforks and torches.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. BTW great forum. I will share my entire experience on here if I survive this.

Don.

[music12]

you will survive one way or another. if they dismiss, you will owe the whole $120,000, and the cc's will go after you to collect it (but debts 14 years old i think are beyond the statute of limitations so unless they are already judgments which generally don't expire).

i don't know specifically what to expect, but the UST will have to give a detailed explanation of why he thinks it's abuse. that will be in writing, probably relatively soon.

i suppose you didn't have an attorney?

[2manybills]

As far as I know the UST needs to file something 10 days after 341 about 707b. Not sure why they took so long and did you have any knowledge prior to your 341 that they were looking for more information?

[aces67]

Do you have a lawyer? Do you have a Pacer account? The UST will send you a packet of papers listing every single one of their issues. It will show up on Pacer before you get it in the mail.

You will need to look over them and file an objection. It can take time but you can overcome the UST depeding on what the issues are.

[r00257]

]

i suppose you didn't have an attorney?

Yep we had/have an attorney. I was trying to be brief in my already long post. our lawyer was recommended by some friends of the in laws.
Older guy who only does BK with a respectable firm. I called him on Friday after hours and left a message today as well.

And no we did not have any knowledge UST was looking into anything. We thought we had cleared up anything she was questioning.

Thanks for all the advice guys.I don't have a PACER account but i will be looking for something in the mail.

Thanks again.

[OhioFiler]

The UST sees income left each month that could be applied to your debts. Are there expenses on your Schedule J that the UST disallowed? If Schedule J indicates a monthly net income less than about $100 then the UST is definitely disagreeing with your statements and will require additional supporting documentation for your claimed expenses.

[2manybills]

I'm not sure why this would be your first notice of this. The UST is required within 10 days of 341 to give notice of presumed abuse and then within 30 days of that file its motion.

It seems like this is too late if in fact your first notice from the UST.

[r00257]

I'm not sure why this would be your first notice of this. The UST is required within 10 days of 341 to give notice of presumed abuse and then within 30 days of that file its motion.

It seems like this is too late if in fact your first notice from the UST.

MY WIFE JUST SPOKE WITH THE ATTORNEY!

But first... regarding the 10 days for UST to give notice. We filed on May 1st, Our 341 was on June8th and they wanted more information afterward and set a tentative meeting for July 14th (if the information we provided wasn't sufficient). After supplying or attorney with the clarification and documentation the local trustee said it was sufficient proof and he canceled the July 14th meeting. The local trustee then closed out estate saying there is nothing there worth going after.

We received a letter (first notice) from UST dated July 28th stating notice of presumed abuse 707b2. I will talk to my attorney to see if the late notice will work in our favor.

OK, My wife just spoke to our attorney. According to the UST he spoke to, We have two small loans on or 403b's (total of about $4,000). According to our attorney the UST is claiming that as expendable income. He referred to the "herschberger or Heisenberg???? case?? My wife couldn't remember the name. It was a case where the UST proved that money spent paying a 403B loan could be considered expendable income after they are then paid in full.

One of those loans are paid off in November freeing up about $50 a month. The other loan won't be paid off for another 4 years ($74 month).

I am surprised the courts would administer (cost involved) to convert us to a Chpt. 13 for a repayment of $2500 or slightly over. My attorney stated the credit companies would want to close the books on the account instead of keeping it open for a fraction of the few thousand that would split amongst them. I'm not saying I don't owe them anything.. i am just surprised.

We are going to meet with our attorney once he researches other cases and advise us.

Thanks again for all of your comments. This is truly a wonderful site that I will recommend to anyone going through a difficult time like this.

Cheers to you all kind people.

-Don.

[keepmine]

Let your lawyer know about the $100/month increase in your escrow.

[2manybills]

From what I've read a 403b is not an ERISA plan. That might be the reason. But still, $50 DMI is not much to be squaking about.

I'd also be interested to hear about why it took them so long to file this.