Considering filing for BK but no papertrail...

[socal1105]

As the title implies, I am considering filing for BK7, but my biggest problem is that I have no papertrail for any of my expenses. The main reason why I'm considering a BK is due to a $30k default civil judgment that I just learned about. In a nutshell, the guy's claim was so erroneous, the only way he could win would be to use the old "sewer service" trick and get a default judgment against me, and since I can't prove that I wasn't served, I'm basically SOL

So to start off with, my credit is already in the dump from my brother using my cc without my knowledge and they're all charged-off now (total of 6 accounts totaling about $3k) so I wouldn't mind starting off with a clean slate again. I don't have any open credit cards, I drive my mom's car that's all paid off and my boyfriend pays for everything from his checking account (i.e. rent, utilities, groceries, entertainment, etc). To make matters worse, since my credit was sub-par, my name isn't even on the rental agreement of our apartment or on anything else. So on paper, I literally have $0 in monthly expenses even though all of my paycheck goes toward our living expenses.

And unfortunately, my income was slightly over the Median Income for my area. So I'm thinking I'm going to have to show expenses in order to compensate for it. But without any proof of expenses, would I have a fighting chance?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, opinions, or recommendations.

[JRScott]

What state do you live in? There's an orange county I think in at least 5 states....

[music12]

and if it's in ny, look at the lawsuit the attorney general is bringing against process servers who have been doing sewer service. if they happen to be involved in the default judgment against you, then it could get vacated...

plus, with this in the news, maybe you have a chance of fighting the default judgment in court, saying you never received the summons and you don't owe this money. did you try? sometimes they set aside default judgments, it really can happen. it's worth a shot, i think.

hmmm, does your name say you are in so. california?

[MrJames]

since there name is socal Im assuming the person is from California{socal+southern cali?}

[OhioFiler]

I'd find out first if there is any way to resolve the $30K default judgement issue without filing BK. It appears to me the poster will end up in a Chapter 13 if she files BK.

[liz417]

I'd find out first if there is any way to resolve the $30K default judgement issue without filing BK. It appears to me the poster will end up in a Chapter 13 if she files BK.

I agree, I think she'll end up in a ch 13 if she doesn't settle the default judgement. It would be wise to set up 3-4 free consults with local BK attorneys, see what they think of your situation, maybe they'll have a better solution for your situation. Good Luck!

[socal1105]

Thanks everyone for your replies... yes, I am in Orange County, CA. I did try fighting the sewer service in court, but unfortunately, the burden of proof is on me and I couldn't prove I didn't get served. Even with a completely different signature and even different name on the papers, that wasn't enough to quash it. And the best part is that I paid an Attorney over $2k to basically stand there and say, "sorry your honor, we have no proof".

It's horrible to think that just about anybody can sue anybody for anything and use this sewer service technique and get a default judgment awarded. And all this for something I am absolutely not responsible for (thanks to my good old brother again). So as you can see, the last thing I want to do is give this guy a single penny for an erroneous judgment he got awarded from lying. I don't know how to describe this feeling of having someone steal money from you from right under your nose using a loophole in our judicial system.

Anyways, if all I can get is a BK13, then I'd rather quit my job and move overseas before I give this crook a penny. I'm definitely going to consult with some Attorneys soon and get a better handle on my situation. Thanks again guys... and any further input is always welcome.

[socal1105]

I was also thinking... if I were to start paying everything out of my boyfriend's and my joint checking account, how would that work as far as verifying my expenses since we basically pay everything jointly? Would the Trustee just take 50% of the monthly expenses or would I have to itemize every expense that's just solely mine? In other words, if we spent $500 per month on groceries from our joint checking account, would I be able say that my monthly grocery expense is $250?

If not, should I start paying everything out of my own checking account and wait 6 months? If I do that, do you guys think I would have a better shot at a BK7 or is that not enough?

Thanks again everyone...

[OhioFiler]

I was also thinking... if I were to start paying everything out of my boyfriend's and my joint checking account, how would that work as far as verifying my expenses since we basically pay everything jointly? Would the Trustee just take 50% of the monthly expenses or would I have to itemize every expense that's just solely mine? In other words, if we spent $500 per month on groceries from our joint checking account, would I be able say that my monthly grocery expense is $250?

If not, should I start paying everything out of my own checking account and wait 6 months? If I do that, do you guys think I would have a better shot at a BK7 or is that not enough?

Thanks again everyone...

It doesn't matter where you pay the expenses from. What I see as a hurdle for you is a lack of expenses that will offset your income enough to qualify for a C7. You need to complete the means test and schedules I and J to see how close to a C7 you really are with your actual expenses.

I also don't understand how the burden of proof rests with you whether you were served or not served.

I would definitely not share a bank account with your boyfriend. Keep a few dollars of spending money in your account and deposit everything else in his account so this creep can't attach your bank account. If you can keep him from finding out where you work you're in the clear as to not having to pay the clown.

[socal1105]

It doesn't matter where you pay the expenses from. What I see as a hurdle for you is a lack of expenses that will offset your income enough to qualify for a C7. You need to complete the means test and schedules I and J to see how close to a C7 you really are with your actual expenses.

I also don't understand how the burden of proof rests with you whether you were served or not served.

I would definitely not share a bank account with your boyfriend. Keep a few dollars of spending money in your account and deposit everything else in his account so this creep can't attach your bank account. If you can keep him from finding out where you work you're in the clear as to not having to pay the clown.

Unfortunately, here in CA, just about anybody that's over 18 years of age can serve you... ANYBODY. It doesn't have to be a licensed or certified Process Server. And to make it worse, they don't even have to serve anybody "in person". They can literally just leave it at your doorstep and that's good enough for the courts.

And when we went to our hearing to quash the Service of Process, the judge said I didn't have any proof to verify that I didn't get served (even though the signatures didn't even come close to matching). Needless to say, I was shocked!

Well, I guess my other option would be to see if the Median Income rises at the next adjustment. And if it's high enough, I can file at that time. Or ask for a pay cut (what madness)...

[OhioFiler]

Unfortunately, here in CA, just about anybody that's over 18 years of age can serve you... ANYBODY. It doesn't have to be a licensed or certified Process Server. And to make it worse, they don't even have to serve anybody "in person". They can literally just leave it at your doorstep and that's good enough for the courts.

And when we went to our hearing to quash the Service of Process, the judge said I didn't have any proof to verify that I didn't get served (even though the signatures didn't even come close to matching). Needless to say, I was shocked!

Well, I guess my other option would be to see if the Median Income rises at the next adjustment. And if it's high enough, I can file at that time. Or ask for a pay cut (what madness)...

I don't think you will have enough expenses to warrant a Chapter 7 filing even if you are under the median.

[2manybills]

The problem in California is if the party has a default judgment and it is more than 6 months old it is pretty hard to get it overturned. Also, once they have a judgment they can record an abstract against you, which would effect any real property transaction for the next ten years, and they can renew it after that. They can also attach your wages, bank accounts, and the like.

[jadams]

Step back for a minute and rethink this...

Your income is going someplace. Just because the checking account isn't in your name doesn't mean you don't have expenses.

Clearly you must pay for food, contribute to rent, etc. What do you do with your paycheck? Do you deposit it in your BF's account? Can you show where it went (i.e. a deposit matching your paycheck into the BF's account, then the payments out of his account for the bills) or are you dealing strictly in cash?

If you're dealing strictly in cash, can you show that it's obvious your BF is spending your cash on living expenses? For example provable expenses being paid beyond your BF's paycheck? (i.e. some proof he must be getting money from you)

How much in expenses are you needing to qualify you for a 7? Did you try an online means test calculator?

Depending on where your numbers come out, it's possible you could qualify just fine with easy expenses (i.e. half of a reasonable rent, IRS standards for food). It really depends on your individual circumstances.

Now if you were tying to claim half of a very large rent payment as an expense in order to qualify, that could be a problem. But if you were claiming half of a reasonable or low number for your area, that should be fine even without you being on the lease.

You won't know if it's a problem until you try doing a means test and see how much you need in expenses above and beyond what's easy and reasonable.

[socal1105]

yeah, the default judgment was over a year ago. This scumbag literally waited 360 days from the time he was awarded the default judgment to levy my checking account, knowing that it would be very difficult for me to overturn it due to the length of time... in which he succeeded. Fortunately, I don't have any real property... just about $100 per month over the median income for my area.

[socal1105]

Step back for a minute and rethink this...

Your income is going someplace. Just because the checking account isn't in your name doesn't mean you don't have expenses.

Clearly you must pay for food, contribute to rent, etc. What do you do with your paycheck? Do you deposit it in your BF's account? Can you show where it went (i.e. a deposit matching your paycheck into the BF's account, then the payments out of his account for the bills) or are you dealing strictly in cash?

If you're dealing strictly in cash, can you show that it's obvious your BF is spending your cash on living expenses? For example provable expenses being paid beyond your BF's paycheck? (i.e. some proof he must be getting money from you)

How much in expenses are you needing to qualify you for a 7? Did you try an online means test calculator?

Depending on where your numbers come out, it's possible you could qualify just fine with easy expenses (i.e. half of a reasonable rent, IRS standards for food). It really depends on your individual circumstances.

Now if you were tying to claim half of a very large rent payment as an expense in order to qualify, that could be a problem. But if you were claiming half of a reasonable or low number for your area, that should be fine even without you being on the lease.

You won't know if it's a problem until you try doing a means test and see how much you need in expenses above and beyond what's easy and reasonable.

What I do is deposit my paycheck into our joint checking account, and then he transfers it to his. And yes, I completed the online median income test from legalconsumer.com and it says that I have $500 of disposable income per month based on the standard deductions for rent, living, food, automobile, etc. And since I don't have any other expenses (i.e. mortgage, car loan, student loan, etc), it looks like that's my final number.

However, I am talking with my employer in possibly reducing my pay so that I can qualify after a few months (I'm sure they won't mind cutting my income). Other than that, I can't think of any other way... any suggestions?