Under the means, but..........

[PdxDavid]

Have you put your numbers in to one of the means tests? It could do one of two things... Put your mind at ease, or allow you to better prepare yourself.
by
We are a family of 7 and are under the median by about 8k. I ran our numbers through the means test and I feel much better. Especially since it seems some of the numbers are low than what we actually put out.

Good luck.

[Moneypenny]

I am confused: why would someone "run the numbers" through a means test if you are already under the median (and by 8K!). I thought once you pass by being under, that is a pass. I thought the other means test is if you are NOT under the median but still want to qualify for 7. So I am confused now by this statement, so i am very thankful since it will probably show some aspect of this process i am completely ignorant about.

thanks,
mmp

[music12]

moneypenny, even if you pass the means test because you are under the median, you still need to file schedules I and J, for income and expenses. you then look at what's left (i.e. income minus expenses, also known as monthly disposable income). if that's around $160 or more, you may be forced into a ch13 even if you are under the median.

it's generally relatively easy for someone who is under the median to have very little left over. if the first time you "run the numbers" you have a lot left, it's usualy because you forgot some expense. as you remember more and more expenses, you would run the numbers again.

[OhioFiler]

moneypenny, even if you pass the means test because you are under the median, you still need to file schedules I and J, for income and expenses. you then look at what's left (i.e. income minus expenses, also known as monthly disposable income). if that's around $160 or more, you may be forced into a ch13 even if you are under the median.

it's generally relatively easy for someone who is under the median to have very little left over. if the first time you "run the numbers" you have a lot left, it's usualy because you forgot some expense. as you remember more and more expenses, you would run the numbers again.

The 2nd part of the means test is a quasi-schedules I & J so most people complete it to see if they may still be forced into a C13 by the trustee. You are not required to complete that section of the test when you file your petition. It merely gives one an idea of where they stand on monthly expenses vs income.

[whipster1]

Social Security is not counted as income on the means test, but it is counted as income on Schedule I.

Here in TX you can deduct it right back out on J as "social security deduction" according to my lawyer.

[OhioFiler]

Here in TX you can deduct it right back out on J as "social security deduction" according to my lawyer.

Schedule J is a statement of your current expenditures. Social Security Income is not an expense.

[music12]

Schedule J is a statement of your current expenditures. Social Security Income is not an expense.

he must have meant schedule I.

[LuciluS]

Social Security/over 65 yrs. or Social Security Disability is NOT included in determining the Means Tests to determine if you are below your State's Median Income. But is it included as Income on Schedule I - right?

So that would mean that Schedule I and Schedule J must be filed with your Chapter 7 Bankruptcy - right?

[music12]

yes, both schedules have to be submitted with your ch7 filing

[MSbklawyer]

Schedule J is a statement of your current expenditures. Social Security Income is not an expense.

But that's how they do it in the WD of TX. See In Re Barfnecht, 378 B.R. 154 (W.D. TX 2007). They back out the social security income by counting it as an expense on "J".

[OhioFiler]

But that's how they do it in the WD of TX. See In Re Barfnecht, 378 B.R. 154 (W.D. TX 2007). They back out the social security income by counting it as an expense on "J".

That goofy judge may have his reasons for excluding SSI from income but to deduct it as a misc expense on Schedule J is ludicrous.

[music12]

But that's how they do it in the WD of TX. See In Re Barfnecht, 378 B.R. 154 (W.D. TX 2007). They back out the social security income by counting it as an expense on "J".

that's too funny.

do they do that with unemployment too? i can't find the case - do you have a link maybe?

[MSbklawyer]

that's too funny.

do they do that with unemployment too? i can't find the case - do you have a link maybe?

No, I don't have a link for it. But if you'll PM me your email, I'll email you the pdf.