showing intent to file bk???

[junker]

just wondering about this big little word INTENT.....IF you are in a bk forum such as this one..... and asking questions concerning filing bk...AND...continue to use cc.s and run up your credit..after asking questions here...and then file bk just after the recommended 90 day limit...arent you opening yourself up to a fraud allegation? if a creditor was to see your posts concerning bk and then continueing to use credit cards? especially if you post a clear intent to file here...and then continue to use the cards???? it seems that just posting questions saying you are contemplating filing bk and then using cc,s especially tapping them out and then waiting 90 days then filing COULD possibly cause problems if a creditor would know you were on a bk forum... can some of the experts please tell me i am wrong and nothing to be concerned about....
definition of fraud.....In law, general term for any instance in which one party deceives or takes unfair advantage of another. Any means used by one person to deceive another may be defined as fraud.

[bankruptsee]

I don't get you... how would a creditor know what you've posted on an internet forum?

[tinfoilhat]

If your legal name is junker and you're the only one with that name, then you're in big trouble.

I'm wondering how you think the CC companies are going to find out who everyone on here is in real life.

[junker]

i suppose they could ask you under oath say at your 341 hearing, the PONT is if it is fraud, not how could they find out

[junker]

some forums ask for your name and other personal info besides just asking for a username... again getting away from the point of the question

[tinfoilhat]

Ask what, if you've discussed bk in an internet forum?

[junker]

maybe asked if you have CONSIDERED filing bk and used a forum.and admitteed that you will file bk... yes.and then continued to tap your cards. Knowing full well that you were going to file bk...

[tinfoilhat]

I haven't typed my real name for any forum ever in the 10 years I've had a computer. It's not on any of my 9 email accounts either. Only online mail order forms, electronic taxes.

What you asked crossed my mind before but it's the last thing I think will ever come up in my case.

[music12]

only you know what your intent is. the question is not whether or not you are on a bk forum. the real question is: when you are using your credit card, are you doing it knowing you will file bk in 91 days? that is, at that moment when you are using the credit card, are you thinking you will be paying it back, or are you thinking you just "bought" something for free because you'll file bk anyway?

if you are planning on bk while swiping your cc, then it's fraud even if it's a year ago. but nobody can prove it unless you said it in some recorded conversation or letter.

[tinfoilhat]

Internet forums have nothing to do with it really. The law states the time frame. When you file bk your lawyer will ask you if you used them in the past 90 days, and what the amounts spent were and advise you on where to go from there. Maybe wait, whatever. No one, your lawyer, no court, trustee, judge, anyone is going to ask you to admit to discussing this on the internet.

[junker]

i have filed bk twice over the years, and it has never come up at a hearing, i was just asking about the POSSIBILITY of this being considered fraud, and to raise a little awareness, of being careful of what we put in print...

[junker]

music, that is the point i was trying to make.... now say you default and get hounded on one cc. but you still have other good cc,s and continue to use them... if the bad cc calls you for payment and you say ...i am considering filing bk...and i dont intend to pay you...and use the other cc,s that is possibly fraud,,, and they probably have you on tape.....

[StartingOver08]

From a moral point of view, you are right. Most of us knew at some point that BK was inevitable. For me personally I stopped using the cards when I realized that I had to file - I continued to pay each month, but started researching the BK process.

I have noticed that not everyone feels that way. There are people that come on this board and continue to charge knowing that they are going to file in X days or months. IMHO, this would be considered fraud. The BK law is pretty specific about presumption of abuse: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/us...7----000-.html

On the other hand, bankruptcy planning is not fraud. Most people that come here, including me, had to learn the rules in order to plan effectively. I believe that most of the people that come to this forum come with 'clean hands' and no intent of fraud. That is why in many posts the advice is 'wait as long as you can' so you get away from the fraud issue.

[tinfoilhat]

I don't understand I guess.
In my case I lost my job and paid all my cc's until the money was gone, then used them to live off of. My during first consultation with a lawyer he asked why I'm still paying with no income. The plan was to get income and never miss a payment. I never did anything near fraud I actually threw all those minimum payments in the garbage trying to stay in the right. Looking back I should have run them up and quit.

[music12]

music, that is the point i was trying to make.... now say you default and get hounded on one cc. but you still have other good cc,s and continue to use them... if the bad cc calls you for payment and you say ...i am considering filing bk...and i dont intend to pay you...and use the other cc,s that is possibly fraud,,, and they probably have you on tape.....

yes, if they have you on tape telling another creditor you intend to file, that could be a problem. however, you could easily say that in your experience saying you intend to file was the most effective way to get rid of the collector, and that it wasn't actually true that you intended to file, it's just what you told them to get them off your back. i could easily imagine saying "hey, i'm filing bk, so just leave me alone!" without ever really meaning to do it.

it's like saying "i'm gonna kill you" without meaning it even for a second.

but if they have you on tape, the burden of proof pretty much shifts to you to prove that you did not intend to file...