Nolo Book

[kw1025]

I have no idea what i would do without this site, and without that book! I have not filed yet, as my attorney and i need to go over bank statements first, but i have every intention to. I have about 175,000 in unsecured and about 2 mill in secured, mainly very underwater florida investments. My attorney said i do not need a means test becuase my debt is not consumer debt. I have very little actual personal cc debt, just lots of assets. Anyone have any words of advice. i am REALLY nervous about filing

[StartingOver08]

Make sure you have all of your documentation ready - the Trustee will be interested in trying to find some asset that isn't underwater. You have a high probablity of interest from the UST...

My BK was only $1M and I had to provide years of documentation. You may have to do the same....

Make sure you have a good attorney. Not an attorney from a BK mill.

[justbroke]

Since your debt is not "mostly" consumer debt, you get to skip the means test. However, you need to make sure that your "disposable income" is still at a permissible level. You should take the On-Line Means Test at LegalConsumer. This will give you an idea if you pass the means test.

I suspect that you're wanting to discharge all that investment property and debt in the Bankruptcy. Again, the key will be what your "disposable income" will be on Schedule J. If it's more than about $109.58, then you're going to have issues getting a discharge because it will be presumed to be abusive. You can overcome the abuse if it's less than $182.50 and have an extraordinary circumstance.

I'd take the means test first to make sure you're okay. While the means test doesn't really apply to you, it will give some idea of what your disposable income is. The Trustee will be looking at your Schedule I (Income) and Schedule J (Expenses) to see if your case is an abuse.

You will get scrutiny from the U.S. Trustee in this case with that amount of debt. They will want your "business" records related to your rental properties, and they may ask for years of it.

[kw1025]

My attorney assures me that i cannot convert to a 13, he said i have 2 options, a 11 or 7. He said, "you do not need to satisfy a means test since your debts are primarily business debts". He said the UST does not have standing to seek dismissal of Chap 7 for abuse, these abuse provisions apply to individual debtors having primarily consumer debts" "you would be entitles to a chap 7 discharge of all indebtness, and would have the option to make a suitable offer to trustee to retain the assets that have value, a few investment properties"

Team, just outof curiosisty you said that they were looking at years of documentation from rental properties. What kind of docs are they looking for? Did you deal with it, or did your attorney?

[justbroke]

My attorney assures me that i cannot convert to a 13, he said i have 2 options, a 11 or 7.

You're correct. I confused the 707(b) dismissals as they are indeed for "primarily consumer debt" only.

Team, just outof curiosisty you said that they were looking at years of documentation from rental properties. What kind of docs are they looking for? Did you deal with it, or did your attorney?

I'm in a Chapter 13, so I only had to turn over the rental proceeds to the Trustee. They would just be looking at your rent rolls. They will probably want a P&L. They may never ask though. Just depends on your U.S. Trustee and his interest in your case.

[StartingOver08]

I had to provide every purchase and sale for all my properties for the past 10 years (and all the mtg documentation). Most of the properties I owned were rental properties although several were primary (not many over the past ten years I only had 2 primary - the rest I owned as rental properties).

Had to provide years of bank statements (business and personal), cc statements, etc. I had about 2000 pgs of documentation provided to my attorney. The attorney is the one that was able to then provide every document to the Trustee as they requested it. He provided only what was requested and he was the 'conduit' - I did not deal directly with the Trustee except at the 341 and the continued 341. The UST was only there (at each 341) by phone. Ultimately I was declared a no asset Ch 7 (Mainly because all the real estate was underwater by the time I filed). LOL

[kw1025]

Are you glad you filed BK? I have three florida properties that are WAY underwater. My attorney said that the trustee will not even want to touch them. I do however, own a few rental properties under a llc in my area that have some equity. I want to keep them and my attorney said the trustee will most likely make an offer and payment plan to buy back. I hope to God that i do not have to provide 10 years of documents, i have NO idea how i would be able to get all that shit! Am am thinking mine will be an asset case becuase of my rentals that i own under the llc that have some equity. ANY advice from you and your experience would be greatly appreciated. One more question...if you had a second on your rentals that were underwater, when you files, did those 2nd mortgages become unsecured dedt, or was it still part of the secured umbrella?

[mike258]

I hope to God that i do not have to provide 10 years of documents, i have NO idea how i would be able to get all that shit!

Start requesting documents from your banks now. Getting them after you file is difficult at best. If they ask why you need documents, tell them you need them for the IRS...