Please help, ethics, cancelling representation, etc

[tinfoilhat]

I don't even know where to post anything anymore In this threadI was dealing with an attorney who wanted me to file a ch 13 even though I have no income. I'm supposed to talk to this guy on the 9th to discuss the plan. I paid him $1500 and I don't think I'm going to use him.

I just got off the phone with a local attorney with 30 years experience, I talked to him several times in the past 2 years. (my gut feeling was always to go with this guy)
This time I discussed all of my concerns. He said I'm ready to file whenever I'm ready, theres nothing wrong with anything I told him, and I told him everything I told all the other ones.

The only problem came at the end of the conversation when I told him I have to see the other attorney on the 9th. He said due to ethics he can no longer speak to me until I end all communications with the other attorney.

Now I find this interesting because the attorney trying to get me to do the ch 13 knew I retained another attorney and never said anything about ethics and me having to cut off all contact with the first guy I retained.

(I paid a partial retainer to one attorney, paid another one to work up my plan, now just consulted with one who actually knows what he's talking about)

Yea, I'm an idiot.

Now this is going to be the third attorney I sat down to speak with, but before I see him I need to cancel representation with the others. I asked if this needs to be in writing and he said no. So how do I cancel representation?

And should I sit with the attorney on the 9th and see how he expects me to fund a chapter 13 when he knows I have no income? He expressed interest in my fathers income and I guess plans on making it look like my father is paying me. He's not, I never said he was, I said he might be able to pay me $100 for 36 months.
Basically can I use any of this against this guy to get any amount of my money back?

So basically I need help getting my money back, and I need to know how to cancel representation.

How will this new attorney know it's been done correctly? How will I know it's been done correctly?

[tinfoilhat]

If I have no chance at getting any of my money back should I just cancel representation asap? not even waste anyones time going over a plan.

[justbroke]

Tinfoil... I think that if you have a meeting with the attorney that you want to essentially fire, he'll count that time as billable and build up a stronger case to not refund any of the retainer. If you're ready, cut ties, ask for an accounting to date, and for an immediate refund of any unused portion of the retainer.

Hopefully, he'll give you a substantial portion of the retainer back and not play games with you. Otherwise, tell him you'll go to the State board on the fee issue.

I wish you luck.

[music12]

if you are reasonably sure you want this atty, whom your gut feeling told you to go with (always go with your gut feeling!), then all you have to do with the previous one is tell him you do not want him representing you and ask for a refund of the fee. you don't have to meet with him on the 9th - in fact, you probably shouldn't because he could say he spent time with you, for which he will probably charge by the hour, deducting from your $1500.

do you have a written retainer agreement with this guy? check what it says about terminating representation (though it's kind of funny given that representation hasn't really started yet.)

the new lawyer just doesn't want to step on anybody's toes; he doesn't want to "take" another attorney's client, which is why he wants you to end representation before talking to him.

if you really have no income, i am very surprised you are finding it hard to find a lawyer who would do ch7. maybe try to get a referral, or if you can't, search on pacer for ch7 cases in your area and get names of attorneys from those cases (but be careful clicking, it could add up!). or go to a 341 hearing in your area and grab a lawyer there (make sure to go to a ch7 trustee hearing!). maybe you just keep stumbling on attys specializing in ch13.

[jadams]

I see justbroke's point about not wanting to give him additional time to include in his billings -- but aren't you curious to see what he comes up with?

I would have to go to the meeting on the 9th because I would need to see what his plan was, and how he intended to follow through with it. Only because I would be concerned maybe there's something I missed and he is right.

And if he really was just crazy and on his own little planet, I would want further evidence of that to use when I complained for even more of my fee refunded. (i.e. point out how illogical if not illegal the plan was, and if he didn't refund you'd file a complaint, etc. etc.)

That being said, the least stressful thing would be to fax/mail a letter informing him that as of this date he is no longer to represent you and asking that your files and the balance of your retainer be forwarded to the new attorney. (But that's also not likely to result in return of much if any of your fee.)

I would put it in writing, only so you have record that you asked for your files and your fee. If you just call on the phone, you may find yourself several months from now unable to get anyone in the office to talk to you and everyone claiming to know nothing about a refund.

Even better if you put a carbon copy to the new lawyer on the letter, to make sure he follows through promptly.

I'd bring the letter with me on the 9th, get my curiosity filled, and if necessary give it in person and save the stamp.

[tinfoilhat]

This is what I recieved after making payment. http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8256/invoicei.jpg
I don't remember signing anything that said I was retaining him.
First thing I did was fill out a basic questionnaire with his secretary.
Then I talked to him as he took notes.
I left and came back to pay with a check.
Got the invoice above, and the packet of forms to fill out.
Did the online credit counseling.
Filled out the forms and turned them into his office.

I am curious to see what his plan was.
Wasn't it unethical on his part to not care about the other attorney I had retained? I asked what to do about that and he said just forget about it, you're not seeing him again.

I'm still not 100% sure on how to go about doing this but it will be in person, his office is not even 5 minutes from my house and the new attorney is about 5 minutes in the other direction.

[whipster1]

You can call the attorney you want to fire and simply say that you are going to use another attorney. That is it.

[tinfoilhat]

You can call the attorney you want to fire and simply say that you are going to use another attorney. That is it.

What about my money?
I'm showing up in person.
Maybe tomorrow.

So thats it, I just tell him I don't want him to represent me? Is it just an unspoken trust?

I thought it was very strange that one attorney I talked to on the phone sent me a letter in the mail saying he doesn't represent me. I would think one I actually handed ALL my personal info to should do the same, am I wrong?

[music12]

be alert that they might tell you that the fee is non-refundable because that's what that invoice says.

however, that invoice is NOT an agreement by you that the fee is non-refundable, because YOU did not sign it. florida rules of professional conduct for attorneys says they must refund any unearned portion of a retainer unless you agreed it would be non-refundable, and you didn't.

also, did he ever tell you what their hourly rate is in case you discharge him? since you say you didn't sign anything, he probably didn't. if he try to charge you per hour for time spent with you, i think you can totally challenge that. you have gotten no services from that lawyer so he hasn't earned any fee.

you might have to compromise, but keep in mind that if you run into a brick wall, you can go to the bar association and they will probably help you.

i would avoid asking this lawyer to forward your file to the new lawyer. just start fresh with the new one and don't muddy the water. each lawyer works differently and it might even annoy the new one to deal with the previous one. i personally wouldn't even say the fired lawyer's name to the new lawyer.

did you pay that first lawyer a retainer too? did you get any of it back??

[AngelinaCatHub]

Tinfoil... I think that if you have a meeting with the attorney that you want to essentially fire, he'll count that time as billable and build up a stronger case to not refund any of the retainer. If you're ready, cut ties, ask for an accounting to date, and for an immediate refund of any unused portion of the retainer.

Hopefully, he'll give you a substantial portion of the retainer back and not play games with you. Otherwise, tell him you'll go to the State board on the fee issue.

I wish you luck.

'Hat: JB has about the best advice I can see. I must add only this; have the attorney you desire, collect the refund that would be due. The original lawyer in my opinion wished a C13 on you as they seem to get more money out of this and it is much more complex than a simple C7. You seem to be a C7 candidate.

Every post here has some good advise, but your interest now is to recover your spent investment. Explain this to the good lawyer you want, and if he is worth his salt, he will work with you on his wages and attempt to collect your due refund less expenses.

Your "gut" feeling is always right. You now are on the right path, but let the good guy go to bat for you. You probably will have paid more than a C7 would usually cost, but you sure the heck will pay less than the C13 would. 'Hub

[music12]

What about my money?
I'm showing up in person.
Maybe tomorrow.

So thats it, I just tell him I don't want him to represent me? Is it just an unspoken trust?

I thought it was very strange that one attorney I talked to on the phone sent me a letter in the mail saying he doesn't represent me. I would think one I actually handed ALL my personal info to should do the same, am I wrong?

it's really not a matter of trust: once you fire him there is nothing he can do. he can't very well file a petition for you without your signature.

if you are going in person, might as well ask for your file back right then and there. wait for him to give it to you. then leave.

he may very well mail you a letter confirming that he no longer represents you. if you feel uncomfortable after your meeting, you can mail a confirmation yourself, stating that you came to his office on such and such date and told him he is no longer representing you. that would create a paper trail in case he tries to charge you for something he did "for" you after you fired him...

[AngelinaCatHub]

P.S. 'Hat:

Most lawyers will not "dist" another. It is like a "brotherhood". Many lawyers, Judges golf together but 'officially' they never talk. Right? Yeah sure. 'Hub

[tinfoilhat]

I think everyone has provided good info. I can see some in each reply that I will probably use. Thanks to all.

The first attorney I gave $300 to hold him as retainer and have the paper for that.

When should I go in there to just cut it off with this guy? Should it be at my appointed time on the 9th?
He's not always at this office up here so if I go earlier and he's not there should I tell his secretary anything?

[tinfoilhat]

it's really not a matter of trust: once you fire him there is nothing he can do. he can't very well file a petition for you without your signature.

No what I meant was the new attorney said there is no paperwork needed to do that. So I just go tell the old attorney to discontinue services and the new one will just trust me that I did that?

I'm not sure how to word this exactly.


New guy also told me when this is all done, just come in and start over like I never went to anyone else.

If thats the case I'll do this in the morning and I'll be filling out the new attorneys paperwork packet within 24 hours.

[OhioFiler]

No what I meant was the new attorney said there is no paperwork needed to do that. So I just go tell the old attorney to discontinue services and the new one will just trust me that I did that?

I'm not sure how to word this exactly.


New guy also told me when this is all done, just come in and start over like I never went to anyone else.

If thats the case I'll do this in the morning and I'll be filling out the new attorneys paperwork packet within 24 hours.

Pick up your phone, cal his office and tell whoever answers the phone you are no longer retaining soandso in this matter. Then you are free to use anyone you wish.