How soon can I relace my car?

[OhioFiler]

OP writes, "My parents are willing to help me out"

Sparky suggests, "If your parents are willing to help out buy a used car and just have it put in their name..."


I reiterate, I certainly would not take this course before filing. The OP never indicated what stage of the BK process they are at.

This is clearly fraud, an attempt to hide an asset. If you do this after filing it's a perfectly fine way to lean on mom and dad for support. Heck, I'd even support your decision to move into their basement.

Sparky, it's not my job here to explain everything to your satisfaction. If you are unsure why I've posted my opinion you are welcome to ask in an adult manner for clarification as a couple other posters certainly did. Spewing your child-like rage ( i.e. "What the hell are you talking about", "Have you been cowering in the corner your whole life?", "Are you so scared you think someones going to find out about what you said?") isn't going to get me to bow to your demands.

Lucile...thanks for providing the unabridged version of my comment.

[tinfoilhat]

OP writes, "My parents are willing to help me out"

Sparky suggests, "If your parents are willing to help out buy a used car and just have it put in their name..."


:

I suggested, since the parents are willing to help out, have them pay for it ALL. If they don't have the money take a few weeks or a month and buy their groceries so their money can go to the car, whatever it takes. It's an unclear question. Yes I see a problem taking money out of the bank with no explaination as to where it went, sometimes I skip the obvious, I think we all should know pretty quick that you don't take money out of the bank without being able to say exactly where it went, and you certainly don't take money out and go buy a car, you might as well just give it to the trustee.
Understand Mr Dick Jiggler?

[doingpoorly]

I can give you my opinion. OP plans to file BK in August. OP is in the 'Critical 90 day period - Scrutiny! OP will have to list Vehicle as an Asset & possibly as a partial Gift, if parents are involved. Here again, there is no Specific Section in the Bankruptcy Code of 2005. Each District/State have their own 'back room' Bankruptcy policy.

When relatives are involved in a Bankruptcy Case, Any Trustee Eyes are going to Bug Out. They see $ signs.

Our BK Attorney packets requests copies of all vehicle titles or loans. We have to include the Vehicle Insurance Blanket Coverage on each vehicle. As we are keeping on home, Homeowner's Insurance Policy is required.

When people who are in the planning stages of BK, they need to realize Trustees are overworked & only get paid hmmm seems like it is $30 or is it $60? whatever! to close a Chapter 7. Where a Trustee makes his money is finding Assets, frauds, etc. They are trained specifically on such. They know how to tell when a Debtor is hiding Anything!

To OP! If able to purchase vehicle without assistance before filing in August....that's fine; as long as, you are able to exempt the Asset value as you don't want to get a loan on an Asset & pay the Trustee too.

If I were in your shoes and parent's are willing to help, hold off until at least Discharge. Also, before any decision is made, please call your Attorney for advice.

We are filing on 9/30/09. I'm on pins and needles as to every $ move I or my Dh makes. The easier the case, the easier chances of the simple questions being asked before, during and after 341. Then wait on time to fly by for Creditors to object. Hopefully to receive discharge in or about 95 days. Closing? Lord only knows when that will happen

Luci

Thanks for the further explanation, but I have a couple more questions. Please.

What problem would there be if parents bought a car with parents money and NO money from OP and they let OP borrow it ? Isn't that what Op meant by help out? I didn't think OP meant they would give OP money for a car, or maybe that is what was meant, I just didn't read that into it.

Question about another scenario:
If a parent loans money to a child to purchase a car within 90 days of BK and is listed on the title as a lien holder and lien is perfected and there is a promissory note signed by the child, how can a TT take it ? Why is a perfectly legal / documented loan that happens to be made by a relative any different that a perfectly legal / documented loan from any other individual /company ? The relative isn't GIVING the child anything in this situation.

Thanks

[OhioFiler]

Understand Mr Dick Jiggler?

Sparky, that type of comment might get you in trouble on these forums. I believe the mods frown on offensive name calling. You can call me Dirk Diggler if you must use a name though.

[broken64]

Best case scenerio I would think would be to wait for the later. However in the real world if you have to get to a job, or have children in need of transportation, that isn't always possible. If your parents are willing and able to purchase a vehicle for you to use for the time being, then I would think that would be the best thing. But like I said if you can possibly wait then do so, so you will have a hopefully smooth as possible BK. Good luck to you with whatever you decide. Take care. Broken

[OhioFiler]

Thanks for the further explanation, but I have a couple more questions. Please.

What problem would there be if parents bought a car with parents money and NO money from OP and they let OP borrow it ? Isn't that what Op meant by help out? I didn't think OP meant they would give OP money for a car, or maybe that is what was meant, I just didn't read that into it.

Thanks

What you describe is most likely not an issue. What Sparky suggested was "If your parents are willing to help out buy a used car and just have it put in their name, for insurance have it put in their name and you as a driver. When you're in the clear just transfer the title to your name."

Buying a car, titling it in another person's name then filing bankruptcy and NOT claiming it as an asset is fraud.

[LuciluS]

Thanks for the further explanation, but I have a couple more questions. Please.

What problem would there be if parents bought a car with parents money and NO money from OP and they let OP borrow it ? Isn't that what Op meant by help out? I didn't think OP meant they would give OP money for a car, or maybe that is what was meant, I just didn't read that into it.
Thanks

I agree with OhioFiler to some degree: His posts regarding the above question: What you describe is most likely not an issue.

I want to take this scenario a little bit further. Will parent's be able to include OP's mate on a New Insurance Policy? A New Insurance Policy requires specific info on who is driving the car whether it is a used or new vehicle, the insurance policy is a new one. I don't believe OP's parent will be able to accomplish such as OP is over the age of 18 or 22 (if still in college) I would assume (err, can't think of another word & ya know what happens when one assumes) Parent's live in same State as OP's home State? If not, lots of issues could happen as OP is filing in August & Month, Month and more months before Discharge.

Question about another scenario:
If a parent loans money to a child to purchase a car within 90 days of BK and is listed on the title as a lien holder and lien is perfected and there is a promissory note signed by the child, how can a TT take it ? Why is a perfectly legal / documented loan that happens to be made by a relative any different that a perfectly legal / documented loan from any other individual /company ? The relative isn't GIVING the child anything in this situation.

I just read a Thread yesterday, where OP paid $1,500 to Trustee and made monthly payment of $200 to Trustee for doing the Exact same thing. In the other post, Poster listed mother perfected lien on vehicle, Trustee was pissed. Will see if I can find that Thread.

[LuciluS]

I have to surrender both my vehicles due to high payments. I purchased a used truck for my husband to drive a couple of months ago that is just under the exemption limit.

When can I purchase a car for myself? My parents are willing to help me out but I can't purchase another (affordable) used car until when??? After the 341, after discharge? I am not sure how to get around if the CU lifts the stay and repos both trucks.

OP: as you have not filed Yet, you realize it's most probable you will Not be able to expense either of the Monthly Vehicle Payment.

I know I've written several posts on this Thread; however, as I was re-reading your start of this thread; the 'lightbulb just came on' regarding the surrender of vehicles.

Now, do you have 3 vehicles in your possession? If so, only two will be allowed for expenses unless a vehicle is required for 'on the job work'. The one vehicle you are thinking about replacing, please don't replace it until after discharge. I'm sure this vehicle principal balance of the loan is greater than the Value of such. Therefore, you won't have to use any of your $$ exemption for it. Hopefully, you are current on such vehicle.

[bkmaggster]

What you describe is most likely not an issue. What Sparky suggested was "If your parents are willing to help out buy a used car and just have it put in their name, for insurance have it put in their name and you as a driver. When you're in the clear just transfer the title to your name."

Buying a car, titling it in another person's name then filing bankruptcy and NOT claiming it as an asset is fraud.

What I believe tinfoilhat meant in this quote is

1. have the parents buy the car, with the parents money
2. parents put the car in the parents name (since they bought it)
3. the parents insure the car and include OP as a secondary driver.
4. Someday later, maybe a year later if needed, parents gift OP with car.

At least, that's what I took it to mean. I don't think this constitutes fraud, or could even be construed as such. At no time before or during the bankruptcy would the car be an asset of the OP.

I think it's fine for people to debate, but it goes nowhere if people aren't debating the same thing!

[LuciluS]

Thanks for the further explanation, but I have a couple more questions. Please.

Question about another scenario:
If a parent loans money to a child to purchase a car within 90 days of BK and is listed on the title as a lien holder and lien is perfected and there is a promissory note signed by the child, how can a TT take it ? Why is a perfectly legal / documented loan that happens to be made by a relative any different that a perfectly legal / documented loan from any other individual /company ? The relative isn't GIVING the child anything in this situation.

Thanks

I just read a Thread yesterday, where OP paid $1,500 to Trustee and made monthly payment of $200 to Trustee for doing the Exact same thing. In the other post, Poster listed mother perfected lien on vehicle, Trustee was pissed. Will see if I can find that Thread.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

K here is the other Thread: In Aimslander's situation he had borrowed money from his mother and she put a lien on the vehicle. Note: 2 pages in this thread.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=40967

I began research on Bankruptcy Oct. 2008 and it is solely my opinion - When relatives get 'involved' in another relative's BK, the Trustee mindset is 'O a Relative....let me delve further to see if I can make some money'. Again, just my Opinion.

And further, OP needs to consult with his/her Attorney before making a decision regarding OP's upcoming BK.

Luci

[doingpoorly]

[COLOR="Blue"]

I just read a Thread yesterday, where OP paid $1,500 to Trustee and made monthly payment of $200 to Trustee for doing the Exact same thing. In the other post, Poster listed mother perfected lien on vehicle, Trustee was pissed. Will see if I can find that Thread.

Is this the thread you are thinking of ?
http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...041#post291041

If so, the reason that poster paid is because there was a difference between value and lien. OP had to pay the difference. That is understandable. A loan without equity or equity within the allowable amount for your state wouldn't be a problem, correct?

[doingpoorly]

K here is the other Thread: In Aimslander's situation he had borrowed money from his mother and she put a lien on the vehicle. Note: 2 pages in this thread.

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=40967

I began research on Bankruptcy Oct. 2008 and it is solely my opinion - When relatives get 'involved' in another relative's BK, the Trustee mindset is 'O a Relative....let me delve further to see if I can make some money'. Again, just my Opinion.

And further, OP needs to consult with his/her Attorney before making a decision regarding OP's upcoming BK.

Luci

I see we were doing this at the same time. Funny.
I did follow that thread and asked some questions. I got a little worried that they took it just based on relative having lien. That seems like it would be so wrong, but it turns out to be reasonable and within the law to do what the posters TT did. To bad he didn't owe mom more money.


I am interested in the whole relative thing because it is exactly what I did.
I can't afford the loan and lease I have, so we borrowed money from parent to buy a new vehicle. Loan was for a few thousand, the value of the vehicle. Lien on title, lien perfected and two payments ( 62 days after loan was taken out ) will be made before filing. Loan car will go back and lease will be up shortly leaving me with one car (the one my parent financed). One car is enough expense for me to pass means and leaves me a tad bit under $100 dmi . I hope what I have done will not come back to bite me. Comments ?

[OhioFiler]

What I believe tinfoilhat meant in this quote is

1. have the parents buy the car, with the parents money
2. parents put the car in the parents name (since they bought it)
3. the parents insure the car and include OP as a secondary driver.
4. Someday later, maybe a year later if needed, parents gift OP with car.

At least, that's what I took it to mean. I don't think this constitutes fraud, or could even be construed as such. At no time before or during the bankruptcy would the car be an asset of the OP.

I think it's fine for people to debate, but it goes nowhere if people aren't debating the same thing!

I didn't read Sparky's quote the way you did. He specifically instructed the OP to buy a car (with his parents help). You read it as though he MEANT have your parents buy a car. I can't know what he meant. I can only know what he wrote!

[tinfoilhat]

What I believe tinfoilhat meant in this quote is

1. have the parents buy the car, with the parents money
2. parents put the car in the parents name (since they bought it)
3. the parents insure the car and include OP as a secondary driver.
4. Someday later, maybe a year later if needed, parents gift OP with car.

At least, that's what I took it to mean. I don't think this constitutes fraud, or could even be construed as such. At no time before or during the bankruptcy would the car be an asset of the OP.

I think it's fine for people to debate, but it goes nowhere if people aren't debating the same thing!

Thanks, thats exactly what I meant.

Sparky, that type of comment might get you in trouble on these forums. I believe the mods frown on offensive name calling. You can call me Sparky Jr if you must use a name though.

Ok then chief, just trying to make this as unstressful as possible. Have a laugh, let go.

[LuciluS]

I see we were doing this at the same time. Funny.
I did follow that thread and asked some questions. I got a little worried that they took it just based on relative having lien. That seems like it would be so wrong, but it turns out to be reasonable and within the law to do what the posters TT did. To bad he didn't owe mom more money.


I am interested in the whole relative thing because it is exactly what I did.
I can't afford the loan and lease I have, so we borrowed money from parent to buy a new vehicle. Loan was for a few thousand, the value of the vehicle. Lien on title, lien perfected and two payments ( 62 days after loan was taken out ) will be made before filing. Loan car will go back and lease will be up shortly leaving me with one car (the one my parent financed). One car is enough expense for me to pass means and leaves me a tad bit under $100 dmi . I hope what I have done will not come back to bite me. Comments ?

I'm following both of these Threads too. Explanation why is in a paragraph Below.

Hmmmm....poorly. 2nd payment made? Do the 2 payments equal more than $600? Filing when? with an Attorney? If so, did you seek his/her advice. Just throwing some questions at ya...don't have to answer them. IF BK is near, possible to stop paying parent until discharge, JUST in case you get a 'Nappy' Trustee??

It's a shame when people are: So financially strapped - know they are unable to make unsecured loan payments - know they are headed to BK - meet with Attorney & he/she says 'Yep, can file BK', see my paralegal for your packet, Contract & btw, I need a retainer fee' - relatives want to help & you let them.

Then, you start seeking info on Chapter 7 & find out you are 'Screwed' because a Relative helped you out! I'm in the same situation except mine involved my ex's wife paying off a Credit Card, promissory note written & I've paid her $1,000 in Nov. & Dec. My Attorney seems to think Trustee will overlook it - best scenario. 2nd scenario - Trustee makes me pay the difference of $400. Worst scenario - I have to pay Trustee $1,000.

Whatever happens, Happens. I'm not waiting until next Feb. to file. I know all of our Credit Cards are now in the hand of CAs' and or JDBs' & I don't want a Judgement filed.