finally hired a atty

[scorpios]

I just want to say that this forum is awesome! has helped us alot.

We finally hired our attny yesterday and will file as soon as we can pay the whole fee! yeah!

My mom is thinking about filing but she took the means test online and it said she was 600 dollars over so she failed the means test. does the attny work the numbers so you can file 7 or do you have to do a 13? We were under the median so we have no idea how that works. thanks

I know its a long road ahead about i feel so much better that we are one step closer! that 60 day wait after the 341 is going to kill me. have a great night

[justbroke]

My mom is thinking about filing but she took the means test online and it said she was 600 dollars over so she failed the means test. does the attny work the numbers so you can file 7 or do you have to do a 13?

If you are close to the "magic number", an attorney can work with you on some pre-bankruptcy planning. Things like getting a new car could help. Also, your mom may not have accounted for everything. I'm assuming she's over the median?

However, $600 is a lot to reduce. She would have to shed a good $440 of that amount to pass the means test.

Again, while attorneys may find other allowances/deductions, the numbers are pretty settled when you're over the median. Unless you have special circumstances, it's hard to overcome a large positive disposable income number. The way the Trustee looks at it is... $600 x 60 = $36,000, that your mom could be contributing to a Chapter 13 plan.

[scorpios]

does the law network calculator account for everything? it only let her put in mortgagge and car payments really and my attny asked me about dry cleaning and dr bills everything so not sure how cut and dry the calculator is. thanks appreciate the info.

[justbroke]

does the law network calculator account for everything? it only let her put in mortgage and car payments really and my attny asked me about dry cleaning and dr bills everything so not sure how cut and dry the calculator is. thanks appreciate the info.

An attorney's calculation is a little more precise, plus he is trying to complete Schedule I and J. Those debtors who are under-the-median need to pay attention to every small expense that they have, so an Attorney will ask everything from haircuts to dry cleaning.

The on-line Means Test calculators generally don't ask for those specifics. These tests are using a very specific formula from the Bankruptcy Code. If you're over-the-median, you take the "IRS Allowances" and don't get to itemize, for purposes of the means test. If you are under-the-median, you don't take that part of the means test,as you automatically "pass".

Does that make sense?

[scorpios]

yeah i think i understand.
so can you be over the median and still file for a 7 or do you have to go 13 or you just cant file at all?

[justbroke]

yeah i think i understand.
so can you be over the median and still file for a 7 or do you have to go 13 or you just cant file at all?

Yes, you can file when you are over-the-median. It's just harder because your expenses, when over-the-median, are mostly controlled by what's known as the IRS Allowances. These are predetermined by the IRS (and adopted by the U.S. Trustee), and are based on what the IRS "thinks" is necessary to support a particular family size in a particular part of the country (down to the County you live in).

For over-the-median filers, you'll hear things like "Food and Clothing Allowance, Medical Allowance, Car Ownership Allowance, and Car Operating Expense Allowance". These are all pre-calculated, and you generally can't exceed them without really really really good reasons (so, basically you can't).

So, an over-the-median income debtor can file Chapter 7, but the more you're over the median, the harder it gets. That's not to say you can't with a $150K family income. You just need to have a really expensive home and a good sized family (4-6), so that those allowances are significant enough, combined with your housing costs, to give you less than abour $180/month in money left over after all "allowed" expenses.

[scorpios]

well there is only the 2 of them and my dads retirement puts them over the median by 6000 a year.

[StartingOver08]

I filed a successful Chapter 7 and was substantially over median. The key, as JustBroke indicates, is your expenses and a good attorney. Make sure the attorney is not from a BK mill type organization (you can recognize them as large firms, lots of advertising and they just churn out the BK's - also they do not review your numbers/budget - they just automatically put you in a Ch 13 if you are over median).

Interview 3 or 4 (or more) attorney's to find the right one. You can do a 7 if the expenses are there and the attorney is experienced and knowledgable.

[liz417]

I agree with the others. I am over the median by 21k, but it's all about expenses and a good BK attorney. I had to interview 6 attorneys before I found one that would run the means test at the consultation, most just saw that I was over the median, a household of 2 and immediately wanted to put me in a ch 13 without looking at my expenses.

Good Luck!