Transcript denied on discharged tuition debt

[chuckySeven]

Draft

Hello,

First of all, thanks for all of the advice! Recently I went out of town for a while, so unfortunately this wound up on the back burner.

Here is a copy of the draft that I might send to the school. However, I'd like to contact the judge to see if he would contact them on my behalf. As I mentioned, I filed pro se, so reopening the case and etc would be nice to avoid if possible. Sure, I'd get the fees back eventually, but if a request sent to the judge works just as well I'd rather do that.

Any suggestions?

Thank you so much for all of the help, you people are great!


To Whom It May Concern:

On August 1, 2008 you were notified that DB filed for protection from creditors in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Saint Paul, Minnesota under Title 11 of the United States Code (Chapter 7).

Your continued failure to release my transcripts are in direct contempt of court and in violation of the discharge injunction and order issued November 18, 2008. A copy of that discharge order and injunction is attached to this letter.

If you fail to remedy this situation within 5 business days of the date contained on this letter, I will name the Director of Admissions, the Director of Student Services (Bursar) and the President of the College as defendants in a Motion to the Court to enter an Order to Show Cause and for Sanctions as you continue to violate the discharge injunction.

Should you seek to remedy this situation prior to the 5 business days, please contact me prior to the expiration of this request. I will file a prepared Motion for Entry of Order to Show Cause and for Sanctions with the court on day 6.

Sincerely yours...


DB

[justbroke]

The Judge won't contact them. The only way to get an Order from the Court is to Motion for Entry of Order to Compel or something similar.

You should just send your letter... certified, return receipt request. Preferably, I would show up at the school in person.

[biotechsolution]

justbroke is right. the bankruptcy court will pretty much only do what you ask them to do....by motion before the court. You'd have to reopen you bankruptcy, $270 or so dollars and file your motion. You might even have to file an AP after the fact to determine the dischargeability of the debt if the school wanted to play hard.

[chuckySeven]

Loans NOT discharged

justbroke,

No, my student loans weren't discharged. The tuition money I owe was used to pay back some of the loan by the school. The judgment they obtained to collect the repaid money was discharged in the bankruptcy.

If the school weren't in Indiana, I would show up in person. Currently I live in Minnesota, so unless I have some other reason to visit Indiana I guess I'll have to do this by mail.

Should I add something to the letter reminding them that the judgment was discharged?

Should I mail the letter to the bursar's office, or the general council? Will it help to add the names to the letter?

Thanks again,

ChuckySeven

[justbroke]

Should I add something to the letter reminding them that the judgment was discharged?

Should I mail the letter to the bursar's office, or the general council? Will it help to add the names to the letter?

I would remind them of that yes.

I would send it to EVERYONE including the bursar, general counsel, president, and dean of students. Certified mail, return receipt requested.

[banca rotta]

I have heard of these horror stories. I know someone who had their cell phone bill discharged however they were refused service unless they paid even though their debt was discharged. Does anyone else have similar experiences?

Well this particular instance is different then the OP's, but I think it's reasonable if one discharges a debt you can't expect to be a "valued customer" anymore. They can't collect the debt but they can demand a deposit if you want to still use their service. I doubt this is considered a "Horror story" considering all the debtor gained from the discharge.

[chuckySeven]

Their response...

Hello,

It appears that the letters weren't enough to convince them to release my transcripts. In their response the school stated that since they consider the debt to be an "educational benefit overpayment," it is a non-dischargeable debt in their opinion. Also, they said that if I had any case law to indicate otherwise to please contact their collections department, or lawyer, via telephone.

Should I bother reminding them that the debt was clearly stated in my bankruptcy, with the bursar's address and etc? Also, the judgment they secured to collect the debt was discharged as well. I'm tempted to contact them again via certified mail, but I'm getting the impression that without a specific court order to release my transcripts / discharge my debt, they won't take any action. I realize that I'll get the ~ $270 back if/when I win the reopening of the case, but I'm really broke right now and if I could somehow avoid putting up that money for weeks or months that would be great.

Also, is it possible to request funds for lost opportunities, anguish / etc. for the period between the discharge in Nov 08 and when they finally allow my transcripts to be released? It's difficult to get a decent job or re-enroll in school without my transcripts!

Thanks again for all of the help, it is much appreciated!

-ChuckySeven

[chuckySeven]

Motion to Reopen the case

Hello,

It turns out that I will probably have to reopen this case. Since I filed pro se, it is up to me to do so.

Currently I am working in China right now and I don't have access to the NOLO chapter 7 book that I used to file. I have emailed NOLO regarding a possible re-download, but they haven't responded and since I ordered it in April 2008 I doubt that they will let me.

Is anybody aware of websites that I could use to research reopening this case via mail? Even worse, the firewalls here don't allow access to uscourts.gov websites, so until I get a vpn I am having trouble accessing the proper forms for this.

Thanks,

ChuckySeven

[biotechsolution]

It could very well cost you $1000 in time and effort to reopen your case. There is also no guarantee of sanctions. You have to show actual damages.
Your best bet would be to see if you can settle for say 500.00.

[music12]

maybe you could ask for a waiver of the fee for reopening.

i think not being able to get a transcript can cause rather obvious damages. the OP needs the transcript to submit it to someplace, and will not be able to do so. but it's true thereis no guarantee of sanctions, especially against a school (as opposed to, say, a bank) because it's not-for-profit.

[debtprison]

If it were I at this point I would bring in an attorney. You pretty much need to go all out on this one. It will only be worth doing if you can recover attorney fees, court costs, punitive damages, actual estimated damages for loss of opportunities and time, etc.

Because you went Pro Se may make it harder but not necessarily impossible. If someone looks and concludes that you have a solid case they may very well take it, perhaps without fees upfront.

I would NOT attempt to do this one myself unless I were myself a lawyer.

[justbroke]

Some attorney will take on a Discharge Injunction case on contingency! No money out of your pocket!

So, shop around.

[chuckySeven]

Jurisdiction - IN or MN

Hello,

It looks like I need to shop around for an attorney. However, I'm not sure which state I should file the suit in.

Although I filed my Chapter 7 in MN, the school is in IN. Should I try to find a lawyer who works on contingency in MN, since that is where the BK was filed?

Also, if it looks like I can't pursue a judgment for lost opportunity, I'll probably just reopen the case myself.

Thanks for all of the help,

C7

[music12]

i don't know for sure, but i think since the bk case was in MN, you would file your motion there. bk court is federal and it has jurisdiction over a school in IN even if it happens to be in the MN district. plus, you can't very well "reopen" a case in IN when there is no case there to begin with!

good luck.

[Dst1]

Hello,

It appears that the letters weren't enough to convince them to release my transcripts. In their response the school stated that since they consider the debt to be an "educational benefit overpayment," it is a non-dischargeable debt in their opinion. Also, they said that if I had any case law to indicate otherwise to please contact their collections department, or lawyer, via telephone.

-ChuckySeven

I do think that you need to talk to a good lawyer. I have familiarity with student loans in a college environment and there seems to be some confusion here on your part. A "educational benefit overpayment" is not tuition even if the excess money was used to pay tuition. What this terms means is that you were supposed to get 10K (for example) from your student loans and the school gave you 11K by mistake. It happens. The federal government then expects the school to get it back from you. Long story short this is a student loan and was not discharged.

Nevertheless, I do think it's an interesting case. I think the school will argue that they are just working as an intermediary for the government and that it is in effect a student loan. I think this is correct. However, you could argue that you should not be held accountable for the schools mistake. Normally when Financial Aid offices mess up their student accounts like this they simply take the error out of the next semester's loans and life is good. But with a BK involved, who knows.

I just want you to understand that you are not dealing with a case about tuition. You are dealing with a student loan mistake.


Edit: You might also want to look at this article. http://www.cullenanddykman.com/advis...=1044511172000

Apparently some intuitions are treating all tuition as if it was a loan. So taking a step back you need to find out if this is a legitimate "educational benefit overpayment" or not. If it's not, the article provides case law you can quote to the GC. If it a legitimate "educational benefit overpayment" you task becomes much harder.