Claim alcohol and cigarette expenditures on Schedule J?

[Dewey]

If someone is an alcoholic and chainsmoker and spends hundreds of dollars a month on these vices--does that have to be declared in Schedule J?

[aces67]

IDK but I'm curious to the answer. My FIL is a serious chainsmoker. He and MIL spend $500 per month on cigarettes. That stuff is so expensive!

[markdel16]

I too would like to hear this. It will make a big difference for me. I was already trying to imagine how I was going to quit drinking and smoking.

P.S. Make your own cigarettes, it's a LOT cheaper. They sell empty cigarette tubes, loose tobacco and machines that push the tobacco into the tubes.

I can make 2.5 cartons of cigs for about $26.

[BKOnce]

Same as gambling... It's a type of addiction. (i.e., alcoholic, gambling, or smoking, etc.) --uncontrollable behavior??--

Asking Trustee to include $$ spent on smoking + drinking is just like also asking him on spare dollar coins for spinning... a Vegas Wheel-of-Fortune!!

[aces67]

I too would like to hear this. It will make a big difference for me. I was already trying to imagine how I was going to quit drinking and smoking.

P.S. Make your own cigarettes, it's a LOT cheaper. They sell empty cigarette tubes, loose tobacco and machines that push the tobacco into the tubes.

I can make 2.5 cartons of cigs for about $26.

Wow that is cheap! I need to tell FIL about that.

[DustinLH00]

If someone is an alcoholic and chainsmoker and spends hundreds of dollars a month on these vices--does that have to be declared in Schedule J?

I have heard of several others on this thread mention a tobacco expense, so I think that would be reasonable. Worst case scenario, they throw it out, so make sure your Sched J has plenty of wiggle room. Dunno about the booze, I think that is an entertainment expense

[DustinLH00]

I too would like to hear this. It will make a big difference for me. I was already trying to imagine how I was going to quit drinking and smoking.

P.S. Make your own cigarettes, it's a LOT cheaper. They sell empty cigarette tubes, loose tobacco and machines that push the tobacco into the tubes.

I can make 2.5 cartons of cigs for about $26.

Don't do this before filing...you want the higher expense receipts to prove if necessary...

[markdel16]

Don't do this before filing...you want the higher expense receipts to prove if necessary...

No choice, my wife and I both smoke, and if I had to pay full price for them, I wouldn't have enough money to smoke (yea I know, we need to quit). Since I stopped paying all my cards, I have $0 left every month, which is why I'm fearing getting pushed into a 13 just because I'm about 3k over median.

[cupcake]

This might help...

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=36763&highlight=cigarettes

[Dewey]

Same as gambling... It's a type of addiction. (i.e., alcoholic, gambling, or smoking, etc.) --uncontrollable behavior??--

Asking Trustee to include $$ spent on smoking + drinking is just like also asking him on spare dollar coins for spinning... a Vegas Wheel-of-Fortune!!

I was actually wanting to know if NOT disclosing those signficant expenditures on Schedule J would be a problem?

[dingdong]

I honestly don't think you can use Alcohol and Cigarettes as a legitimate expense in a BK petition.

There are some Trustees who scrutinize Tithing to a church and limit the amount you can use as an expense or means test expense.

Not trying to be mean or judgemental, but do you really think a judge or TT is going to allow you to deduct/use these kind of expenses?

Honestly, I wouldn't even attempt it, why would you want to cause the TT to look more carefully at your expenses than they already do.

If you try to use these, they may be prone to being more thorough and challenge some of your expenses.

Well I just read the other thread posted above about some districts allowing ciggys as an expense. I still wouldn't want that on my petitions, which are public record and have the TT give me crap for it-but just my opinion.

[dingdong]

I was actually wanting to know if NOT disclosing those signficant expenditures on Schedule J would be a problem?

You don't have to include them.

[justbroke]

There are some Trustees who scrutinize Tithing to a church and limit the amount you can use as an expense or means test expense.

I can't wait to meet one of the Trustees, as they are in for a battle with me. The Bankruptcy Code is VERY clear on this and they went so far to say, in 11 USC 707... "the court may not take into consideration whether a debtor has made, or continues to make, charitable contributions... to any qualified religious or charitable entity or organization".

I would quite simply ask them what that paragraph means. So long as it's in the IRS limits, 15% of gross, they have nothing to stand on.

Sure, they can say... wow, that's alot (I have $435/month to contributions)... but I'll say... don't you give? What they can't do, is in any way pressure you to decrease that amount at all. Even if you have negative disposable income. Even if removing that contribution would give you a disposable income over $182.50 (see 11 USC 707(b)(1)).

Now cigarettes and other vices... that's a different story. i see nothing in the code given them an exclusive exemption from any means test or abuse test calculation.

[25andbroke]

I put 160 per month as cigarette expense on my means. Actually my lawyer asked if i smoked so we could include it to lower disp income number. Which i spend about $40 per week on smokes. I suppose its a legit expense. I wouldnt put $500 and the trustee not to cut that down.

[LuciluS]

This might help...

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...ght=cigarettes

O Cupcake! You put my name in the newspaper!

That was quite a discussion. Guess I need to add that ? to my list for Attorney.