Claim alcohol and cigarette expenditures on Schedule J?

[HHM]

You can try to imbed the expense in your groceries, but having a separate category for Alcohol and Cigarettes probably won't fly

[veryclose]

Same as gambling... It's a type of addiction. (i.e., alcoholic, gambling, or smoking, etc.) --uncontrollable behavior??--

Asking Trustee to include $$ spent on smoking + drinking is just like also asking him on spare dollar coins for spinning... a Vegas Wheel-of-Fortune!!

I declared the amount I spent monthly for my mother's cigarettes on mine and not an eyebrow was raised.

[WillinVT]

P.S. Make your own cigarettes, it's a LOT cheaper. They sell empty cigarette tubes, loose tobacco and machines that push the tobacco into the tubes.

I can make 2.5 cartons of cigs for about $26.

Where do you get this stuff? At a local Tobacco shop? There is one about 6 miles from where I live, so I may just have to check that out. I know my wife and I need to quit, but right now does not seem like the right time.

I use to roll my own, but got tired of it.

Right now, I am paying $13.00 for 2 packs.

[markdel16]

Where do you get this stuff? At a local Tobacco shop?

Yea, they're all over the place in Pennsylvania. I suppose it depends on where you live, though. There's no places in NJ to get it.

[Logan]

IDK but I'm curious to the answer. My FIL is a serious chainsmoker. He and MIL spend $500 per month on cigarettes. That stuff is so expensive!

$500 a month to cancer sticks. It just amazes me that people let these things control their lives.

I can't even sit outside at a coffee shop without some guy blowing cigarette smoke in my direction and then throw his/her leftovers on to the sidewalk.

Absolutely Disgusting!!!

[Logan]

I can't wait to meet one of the Trustees, as they are in for a battle with me. The Bankruptcy Code is VERY clear on this and they went so far to say, in 11 USC 707... "the court may not take into consideration whether a debtor has made, or continues to make, charitable contributions... to any qualified religious or charitable entity or organization".

I would quite simply ask them what that paragraph means. So long as it's in the IRS limits, 15% of gross, they have nothing to stand on.

Sure, they can say... wow, that's alot (I have $435/month to contributions)... but I'll say... don't you give? What they can't do, is in any way pressure you to decrease that amount at all. Even if you have negative disposable income. Even if removing that contribution would give you a disposable income over $182.50 (see 11 USC 707(b)(1)).

Now cigarettes and other vices... that's a different story. i see nothing in the code given them an exclusive exemption from any means test or abuse test calculation.

Since you're going into debt in order to pay your monthly religion dues you are passing on your tithings to others hence getting non believers to contribute to your religious views.

[justbroke]

Since you're going into debt in order to pay your monthly religion dues you are passing on your tithings to others hence getting non believers to contribute to your religious views.

I do not know what you are trying to say at all.

Did I say that I gave to a religious organization somewhere? In any event, I believe that you're attacking someone's character based on a contribution to a religious organization (since you didn't say anything about other non-profits, like United Way, Give Kids The World, The Shriner's Children's Hospital, or any others).

First, my debt greatly exceeds my "charitable" contributions in a significant amount. How about the $538/month I have to pay the U.S. Trustee so that they can write 6 checks a month? That's more than my "charitable" contribution. Shouldn't the Trustee just give that to the people, so as not to pass on his "financial" needs to non-believers (in Bankruptcy)?

Remember, this Country was founded on religious freedom, so anyone who is anti-religion is welcome to leave. LOL

I trust that you didn't mean what you posted, or that you are just out there on the fringe. Just as I don't get down on people for smoking or having other vices, I don't get on people over their religion or how they choose to not believe in religion.

[LuciluS]

[QUOTE=dingdong;288947]I honestly don't think you can use Alcohol and Cigarettes as a legitimate expense in a BK petition.

There are some Trustees who scrutinize Tithing to a church and limit the amount you can use as an expense or means test expense.

[QUOTE=justbroke;288983]I can't wait to meet one of the Trustees, as they are in for a battle with me. The Bankruptcy Code is VERY clear on this and they went so far to say, in 11 USC 707... "the court may not take into consideration whether a debtor has made, or continues to make, charitable contributions... to any qualified religious or charitable entity or organization".
I would quite simply ask them what that paragraph means. So long as it's in the IRS limits, 15% of gross, they have nothing to stand on.

Sure, they can say... wow, that's alot (I have $435/month to contributions)... but I'll say... don't you give? What they can't do, is in any way pressure you to decrease that amount at all. Even if you have negative disposable income. Even if removing that contribution would give you a disposable income over $182.50 (see 11 USC 707(b)(1)).
QUOTE]

Since you're going into debt in order to pay your monthly religion dues you are passing on your tithings to others hence getting non believers to contribute to your religious views.

Logan, I disagree. Justbroke is quoting a Bankruptcy Code Law where it is a Defined Expense - Charitable Contributions are Allowed as long as you can prove the Charitable $$ are frequent.

In other words, your charitable expenses claimed for Bankruptcy match the $$ deducted on at least 2 Yrs. Tax Returns.

It's the Law. He's not suggesting to non believers or believers to tithe as one must have tithed in previous years. Dh and I will be allowed 'our charitable contributions' in our BK as per the Bankruptcy Code justbroke defined.

Nor am I suggesting such.

Luci

[dingdong]

I was raised going to Sunday school and church 3 times a week.

twice on Sundays, once wed evening.


Am I religious, nope.

do I believe a higher power has intervened in my life at times, yep.

some things just cant be explained by conicidence.

But if i were to donate to any organization if i had the means, it would be a church, probably catholic chairities. i have never attended a Catholic Mass on my own volition, except for a couple weddings. I was raised Protestant.

Catholic chairities, the social welfare organization, provides food, clothing, utility assistance, rent assistance , mental health support, youth activities TO ANYONE OF ANY FAITH.

Churches and religious organizations provide support for many people in many ways.

This is not the place to start a discussion on religious beliefs.
We all have the right to believe in what ever we want. Whether a big purple dinasour is your lord and savior or Jesus Christ.

Tithing is an accepted religous/social practice, just as is paying your monthly dues to belong to a gym, except churches don't require you to tithe to be a member, it is a personal decision.

[EricaCallaha]

Your alcohol won't fly. They will tell you to get treatment. The cigarettes can probably be padded into your grocery expense.

I sincerely hope you can get some help with your addiction. It a very serious matter and has probably contributed to the situation that you are in now.

No judgments here....Just come from an alcoholic family that has seen the most dire of consequences of that horrible addiction.

Good Luck.

[markdel16]

Your alcohol won't fly. They will tell you to get treatment.

The alcohol probably would cost less than any treatment. Should I be forced to quit drinking, can I add Detox as an expense?

[dingdong]

I believe there was a member here that had an issue with alcohol and was being denied a 7 filing, and needed the expense (rehab) to pass the means test.

I believe the court allowed it? I can't really remember. I will see if I can find the thread.

[EricaCallaha]

We had a case in UT like that. They will pay for the rehab but not the juice.

Couldn't find the case...it was buried in some case law book I read.

[veryclose]

$500 a month to cancer sticks. It just amazes me that people let these things control their lives.

I can't even sit outside at a coffee shop without some guy blowing cigarette smoke in my direction and then throw his/her leftovers on to the sidewalk.

Absolutely Disgusting!!!

I don't think the OP asked how you felt about cigarettes.

[relief13035]

I don't think the OP asked how you felt about cigarettes.

Bravo!