questions about lowering expenses

[nomoreccs]

It's been hard to get through our attorney's clerk and get an answer from HIM directly. I think his clerk thinks she knows the answers and tries to advise us but I'm unsure what to believe.

Our 341 is in a month. We are having a hard time getting by right now and would like to cancel cable and our cell phones. Our medical expenses (and the cost of gas) are killing us right now. Our medical expenses change each month but are higher than what most people pay (doctor copays and medications - we both have chronic health problems and I have really been putting the miles on going to appointments - we live in a very rural area).

The clerk told us not to change ANY of our expenses - not to cancel anything. But am I correct that at the 341 the petition will be based on our expenses at the time of FILING and not at the time of the 341? My husband will be getting a raise 2 weeks before the 341 but our health insurance will also be increasing at that time. How much of that do we need to get into with the trustee at the hearing?

Just how detailed do we have to be with changes to our income/expenses at the 341?

Eliminating cable and cell phones will cut about $150 off our expenses. I know that puts us to the point that technically we would be considered a 13 instead of a 7.

Can we cut our expenses NOW or do we need to wait?

If we wait, can we cut the expenses after the 341 or do we need to wait until Sept. when our case is discharged and closed?

I'm hoping to be able to talk directly to our attorney before our 341, but like I said, it's hard to get through his clerk. She admits she's not an attorney, but sometimes she acts like one...

I KNOW you guys aren't attorneys, but I'm just looking for some advice/suggestions to consider. THANKS!

[cwilliams]

We cut off our satellite in March and cut off one landline (2nd line) and the bill will finally be adjusted to a lower amount in July, so even if you cancel right now you probably won't see a decrease for a month or two. And even if you did, wouldn't that $150 or whatever end up going for medical bills, food and gas? So I see that it would be a wash, personally.

[Beedlebrow]

And even if you did, wouldn't that $150 or whatever end up going for medical bills, food and gas? So I see that it would be a wash, personally.

That's how I see it.
You would just adjust your expense list.
I put down what we spent on groceries, but obviously we didn't spend that exact amount every time, so adjusting is reasonable.

We dropped down a level in internet service and dropped the landline.
Now we're all on one cell plan.
The added benefit to that was.....no phone calls!

[frustrated7]

We had already lowered our expenses so much before we filed that I didn't think we could lower it much more. But we have been struggling so much these past couple of months that we did find ways to lower our expenses even further. This was after our 341 meeting while awaiting discharge. So far, knock on wood, no problems with that. We need that money for other things.

[Klesko]

We lowered ours from $9500 a month to currently $4000 a month which is still too much but we are working on it.

3500 of the above was credit card payments which we just stooped paying on them.
900 was moving from a house to apartment
300 was from saving in utilities
500 was a second car we got rid of

[nomoreccs]

The thing is, our clerk had a problem with us when I told her I lowered some expenses right before she filed. Yeah, it made work for her, but that's not MY problem. The forms are filed, I just don't know if I have to reveal any changes we MAY do while we're waiting for the 341. Oh this sucks. I guess I'll just wait until after the 341. I don't see how that can make a difference. Like I said, this sucks.

You're filing bankruptcy because you can't pay your bills, yet they tell you to come up with as many expenses as you can to equal your income. The expenses are bullshit. They have us spending $400 a month for 2 people on groceries, which is doable, but that's supposed to include household items and pet supplies as well? WTF? This whole thing is a game.

[bnkrptinva]

I feel your pain. I had to "borrow" money after filing to make ends meet. Once the 341 happened, I made some further adjustments to help make ends meet. I guess the thing about filing doing a 7 or 13, literally you are not smooth sailing financially just because you do that...you've filed because no way in heck can you live on cash and pay the debt...there's just no money.

Not sure what to say about making adjustments before the 341. I was told not to make adjustments to my paycheck though..not sure about the other type of expenses..those might not be as bad to do...but then again, I suppose it depends on your trustee.

[nomoreccs]

I feel your pain. I had to "borrow" money after filing to make ends meet. Once the 341 happened, I made some further adjustments to help make ends meet. I guess the thing about filing doing a 7 or 13, literally you are not smooth sailing financially just because you do that...you've filed because no way in heck can you live on cash and pay the debt...there's just no money.

Not sure what to say about making adjustments before the 341. I was told not to make adjustments to my paycheck though..not sure about the other type of expenses..those might not be as bad to do...but then again, I suppose it depends on your trustee.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't...

[berrymom35]

Were in the same boat...barely enough money to scrape by, but still trying to find enough expenses to "quailify". What about things like kid's birthdays and Christmas? Courts want you to be hungry and sad to file BK now...my bday is today and we don't even have the money to go out to eat or celebrate in any way...which is not a big deal, but my son's bday is in two weeks and my other sons 10 days after that...my daughter's next month...the way we are now..there is no money for a decent present, let alone a party for their friends. I feel like we have really suffered and done without and it still is no enough suffering to appease the creditors....

[cupcake]

The reason your attorney's paralegal/clerk is telling you not to lower any expenses at this point is because you haven't had your 341 yet. The trustee will most likely ask at your 341 whether or not your financial situation and the information on your paperwork has changed. If you cut your expenses now you'll have to tell him what expenses you eliminated and how much extra money has been freed up. If it's enough to fund a 13 you may be in trouble. However, if you wait to lower your expenses until after the 341 it will not be an issue.

[LuciluS]

Were in the same boat...barely enough money to scrape by, but still trying to find enough expenses to "quailify". What about things like kid's birthdays and Christmas? Courts want you to be hungry and sad to file BK now...my bday is today and we don't even have the money to go out to eat or celebrate in any way...which is not a big deal, but my son's bday is in two weeks and my other sons 10 days after that...my daughter's next month...the way we are now..there is no money for a decent present, let alone a party for their friends. I feel like we have really suffered and done without and it still is no enough suffering to appease the creditors....

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BERRYMOM!!

I like to say we are in the same 'Cruise Liner' (a person can dream right?). We are waiting until 9/09 to file as I want Dh and I to be under State Median Income. We have plenty of expenses as our Major bills are medical.

I no longer care about our Creditors as I did when we started this Journey last Sept. Why? Well, they started our demise in jacking up our interest rates, at the same time, lowering our credit; in retrospect to what we owed them. I've had some nice Creditors call. In fact, just this morning I returned a call to Bank of the West and Linda was very pleasant to talk to. It's the couple I've had who soured my stomach. One was just down right yelling.

My birthday was 3/08 & Hubby's was 5/1. We didn't go out and celebrate either one of them. HOWEVER, I have 3 precious grandchildren who are 7, 9 & 12. I somehow found $30 for the 2 & last 1 is next month & I've got $30 stashed back. Twasn't easy though.

The packet we received from our BK Attorney doesn't even list Gifts & haven't asked him if our District/State allows such. I will probably force the Issue & if Trustee disallows such, you bet your sweet babies, I will say something at our 341 hearing.

Your right, as your children will suffer also. It's not Fair to them. I'm sure they have a tad bit inkling, but children remember their Birthdays. I will add them to my Prayer List.

Again (((((((((HAPPY BIRTHDAY!))))))))). Hang in there.

Luci

[veryclose]

The reason your attorney's paralegal/clerk is telling you not to lower any expenses at this point is because you haven't had your 341 yet. The trustee will most likely ask at your 341 whether or not your financial situation and the information on your paperwork has changed. If you cut your expenses now you'll have to tell him what expenses you eliminated and how much extra money has been freed up. If it's enough to fund a 13 you may be in trouble. However, if you wait to lower your expenses until after the 341 it will not be an issue.

This question was asked of me at my 341. I had not cut any expenses, so the answer was "no."

[cupcake]

Something else I forgot to address: you've already said that your husband will be getting a raise two weeks prior to your 341. So, you will have extra money from both cutting expenses and increased income, both of which you are required to disclose to the trustee at your 341.

Seriously - you need to NOT cut those expenses and, if possible, delay your husband's pay increase until after your 341. Otherwise, you're going to make it really easy for your trustee to force you into a 13.

[LuciluS]

The reason your attorney's paralegal/clerk is telling you not to lower any expenses at this point is because you haven't had your 341 yet. The trustee will most likely ask at your 341 whether or not your financial situation and the information on your paperwork has changed. If you cut your expenses now you'll have to tell him what expenses you eliminated and how much extra money has been freed up. If it's enough to fund a 13 you may be in trouble. However, if you wait to lower your expenses until after the 341 it will not be an issue.

Cupcake:

I knew there was a reason why our BK Attorney told us last Sept. to not try not to cut our telephone & satellitle monthly bill. He never explained why and I didn't ask as I knew it would be a year before we could file.

Hasn't been easy due to unforeseen horrific medical bills this past year. Just reassures me of 'faith' in what Attorney said. Thank you for a simple explanation.

Luci

[nomoreccs]

Something else I forgot to address: you've already said that your husband will be getting a raise two weeks prior to your 341. So, you will have extra money from both cutting expenses and increased income, both of which you are required to disclose to the trustee at your 341.

Seriously - you need to NOT cut those expenses and, if possible, delay your husband's pay increase until after your 341. Otherwise, you're going to make it really easy for your trustee to force you into a 13.

Thanks cupcake.

Hubby works for the state so delaying his raise isn't an option. It's only $100/month and our health ins. premiums are going up $20/month at the same time so it shouldn't be an issue. After taxes, we'll be lucky to have $50 more a month in his pay. The attorney's clerk already knows this, and of course we'll tell him at the 341. His first pay that will include the increased wages and increased premiums isn't until after the 341 but I know we need to disclose it. Actually, working for the state (PA), hubby will be lucky to get paid at all beginning in July. The state hasn't balanced the budget so there may be NO money coming in after his paycheck next week...

We've decided to hang in there and NOT cut any expenses right now. If a bill has to wait, it has to wait. I'm going to take along proof of June's medical expenses in case that comes into question.

I really hope that after the 341 our attorney advises that we CAN start cutting expenses, but I have a feeling he's going to tell us to wait until after the discharge. I really hope not.