How likely is it....

[banca rotta]

Wheee! Thanks for sharing. Guess I need to thankful to live in the south, don't I?

If you go with a 13 the legal fees will come out of your plan anyway. At least most of it will.

[justbroke]

If you go with a 13 the legal fees will come out of your plan anyway. At least most of it will.

This may be true in some Districts, but it seems in Florida, the Attorney's want most of the fee up front, with the "rest" in the Plan. Usually it's about $1,000 in plan as "monitor fees", and then $2,000-$3,000 up front for filing.

[DustinLH00]

I can't believe how the fee differs so much between all of us, blows my mind...

This may be true in some Districts, but it seems in Florida, the Attorney's want most of the fee up front, with the "rest" in the Plan. Usually it's about $1,000 in plan as "monitor fees", and then $2,000-$3,000 up front for filing.

[Amy26]

Hehe, well technically Virginia is in the south too... but I live near DC so I guess that's why.

[Amy26]

Probably not. Again, your attorney knows the landscape, the local Trustees and a lot more about your expenses and petition that I will ever know.

Trust your attorney. If something comes up, as he says he will, he will reduce that "disposable income". Technically, that disposable amount can't be over $168.00 (or something around there).

I wonder, is the "Presumption of Abuse" box checked on your Form B22A?

Well I asked my attorney... he said that in regard to the means test, yes it is true that over 108 dollars results in presumption of abuse. But he said if you don't have to do the means test it does not apply.

[justbroke]

Well I asked my attorney... he said that in regard to the means test, yes it is true that over 108 dollars results in presumption of abuse. But he said if you don't have to do the means test it does not apply.

Oh! You're under the median! Silly me!

Now ask him what a 707(b) motion is?

(Just kidding. I'm having too much fun. I'm sorry if I caused any concern. Lack of information usually yields unpredictable answers.)

[veryclose]

I think the magic number as far as disposable income goes differs based on income and circumstance. My magic number was $160 - if I had more than that in disposable, I would be pushed into a 13. I only had $24 disposable per month so I was okay.

[justbroke]

I think the magic number as far as disposable income goes differs based on income and circumstance. My magic number was $160 - if I had more than that in disposable, I would be pushed into a 13. I only had $24 disposable per month so I was okay.

There are actually two formulas which control the "presumption of abuse" in Chapter 7 means test.

The first test is a simple mathematical test. If your disposable income, according to the Means Test, is over $109.58 and less than or equal to $182.50, the "presumption of abuse" exists.

The other test follows a slightly more complex test. If your disposable income multiplied by sixty (60) is at least 25% of your scheduled unsecured debt, then "presumption of abuse" exists. The Bankruptcy Code reads that if you are able to pay 25% of your unsecured debt you should be in a Chapter 13.

Now, you marry these two together and your disposable income must be less than $182.50/month and when multiplied by sixty (60), your disposable income must also be less than 25% of your unsecured debt. ($182.50/month times sixty is $10,950)

The presumption can be rebutted if you have "special circumstances".

So, there are two magic numbers, but the first one is easy. Your disposable income can't be more than $182.50 per month. The second test requires some math, but still, your disposable income can't be more than $182.50/month and it can't be 25% or more of your unsecured debt, when multiplied by sixty (60).

Here's an example. Say your an over-the-median income filer for your State. Let's say that you have $140/month in disposable income as per the Means Test. Let's say that you have $30,000 in scheduled unsecured credit. Your case has a "presumption" of abuse. Here's why. While you are under $182.50/month, you must also pass the other test. When I multiply $120/month (your disposable income) by sixty I get $8,400. Unfortunately, $8,400 is about 28% of your unsecured debt, so you fail the second test and "fail" the Means Test. You may still be able to rebut the "presumption of abuse" by asserting a "special circumstance". The Bankruptcy Code includes only two examples of what could be a special circumstance. They are severe medical issues and military service. (This doesn't meant that those are the only two "special circumstances".)

I hope that this information is informative.

[Amy26]

Oh! You're under the median! Silly me!

Now ask him what a 707(b) motion is?

(Just kidding. I'm having too much fun. I'm sorry if I caused any concern. Lack of information usually yields unpredictable answers.)

LOL, you almost gave me a panic attack. ;)

Its all good... need a little fun in our misery. You should put the bolded line in your signature!