What do you think...

[Amy26]

Ah I missed the filing part... so sad... well good luck to him.... he's gonna need it. The worst part will be if he comes back here in like 3 months and says "haha it all worked".

[cantwait]

I thought they looked at your gross income not net after taxes? Am I wrong? If that is the case we can file sooner, and not wait for some income to drop off of the 6 months.

[DustinLH00]

I thought they looked at your gross income not net after taxes? Am I wrong? If that is the case we can file sooner, and not wait for some income to drop off of the 6 months.

They look at your gross annual income and base it off of the past six months of gross income. When you are filling out the means test and/or Schedule J, you list your payroll tax deductions there.

So if you are trying to qualify for a Chapter 7 and you are over the median income, then yes you need to wait for that income to drop off...

[pookieny]

I'm under the NY single filer median in pay rate, but if you add in some little commisions and overtime, then I was over. Not by much, but over so my attorney had me wait a few months to see if I could qualify for a 7. I just did qualify and was under but a really small amount.

[ela805]

Filed 6/11/09
341 7/22/09
Last day 9/22/09

Just poking my head into this thread to say~Wow, you filed on 6/11 they gave you the 341 date on the spot? I got mine in the mail a couple of weeks later. Hmmmm....

[SuzieBK]

I wonder if it is untrue for the OP to answer "no" to the question "Has anything changed since you filed?" even if he has gotten the 14K check before the 341. His work is commission-based, therefore he is not accustomed to getting a regular paycheck. He is, however, accustomed to getting large commission checks on an irregular basis. So while the amount is larger than most of us get in one chunk, this may not be that unusual a situation for the OP. So nothing has actually changed for him, he just got a commission check. This may be letter of the law and not spirit of the law, but I'm curious about others' thoughts.

[Trixie007]

I think I wouldn't want to stand in front of a judge and explain why I thought 14k wasn't enough of a "change" to mention.

[DustinLH00]

+1

I think the OP is mad at all of us for talkin...

I think I wouldn't want to stand in front of a judge and explain why I thought 14k wasn't enough of a "change" to mention.

[pookieny]

If that is his pay and it's not unusual for him to be paid this way, then technically nothing changed.

[SuzieBK]

If that is his pay and it's not unusual for him to be paid this way, then technically nothing changed.

That's my point. I work for myself and will get checks ranging from $25 to $3K at various points during the year. If I got a $3K check right before the 341, I don't see that as a change in my circumstances. However, if my husband, who is a W2 employee were to get a raise/promotion before our 341, then, yes, that would be a change in our circumstances. I think that there is a difference for people working commission or as consultants.

[jadams]

Well, if you work on commission -- is your income earned when you make the sale, or when you receive the check?

I recall reading about about when income is considered earned in regards to real estate commissions -- when the property is put under contract (and thus the commission amount fixed and usually the realtor's work is done), or when everything finally closes and the check is actually cut? Depending on the district, it went both ways.

If the OP is in an area that considers it earned when the work is done, he may have bigger problems than "did your circumstances change".

[TeacherMomma]

I got my 341 date/time the day I filed.
And I also got a letter ,as I have posted, from the UST for ALL earnings documents/paychecks/proof of other sources of income from the 6 months back AND up to the date of the 341 (and last years taxes).....no problem for me, but the OP would be in a hard spot if asked to do the same.
We are also over median.

[chad9162]

You are correct poo... I am in the same boat he is. My median for the last 6 months is way under but if I filed months from now I would be over the median. My qualm with it is more of an ethical one. If I was about to get a large check like that, I personally couldn't ethically file ... but that's just me.

I don't think ethics has anything to do with it. It's all business. I mean was it ethical for AIG to spend over $400,000 (for top executives) to spend a weekend at the Ritz Carlton in Half Moon Bay after receiving billions in taxpayer bailouts? Is it ethical that FORD, Chrysler, GMC, and other Wall Street Companies file bankruptcy and screw their employees and creditors?

This whole process has made me wonder if "we" the little guys, have been brainwashed by the rich into think that we have to pay our bills because its ethical or the right thing. I mean the rich Wall Street types don't. They use whatever loop hole they can not pay. To them its just business.

[chad9162]

Just poking my head into this thread to say~Wow, you filed on 6/11 they gave you the 341 date on the spot? I got mine in the mail a couple of weeks later. Hmmmm....

What's your point??? I got my 341 on the spot to. My attorney file electronically.

[chad9162]

The worst part will be if he comes back here in like 3 months and says "haha it all worked".

I am not trying to pick on Amy but her points seems to be a consensus on the thread. As Lucilus pointed out I don't see anything unethical. The OP is following the BK code. The code states that income in based on the prior 6 months and that the filing date establishes the BK estate.

In fact, if you win the lottery after the filing date, it wouldn't matter. Its not part of the BK estate. It could be argued that his future checks were known ahead of time and could theoretically be included in the BK estate, sort of like a settlement check. But that's something he needs to figure out with his attorney.

I just don't understand why everyone is being judgmental when there are people on this forum who aren't working or refuse to get a job so they can file Chapter 7. Is that ethical!? People on this forum have cut back on work hours, pass up on overtime or wait until there income averages out again to qualify for Chap 7. Again, Is that ethical?

No, I don't consider your situation unethical either... you are basing your decision on laws. You are waiting the proper time for something you know exists and filing accordingly.

This person knowingly realizes he will get a 14k check in the very near future and wants to file BEFORE he gets that check to circumvent the system so he doesn't have to include that as income. THAT is unethical... to me. Legal? I guess so... but just doesn't seem right.

This statement is a bit of a contradiction. On one hand its okay Luci uses the law to her advantage but on the other hand the OP can't. To me its the same.

Again what's the difference between people who are not working, cutting hours, averaging income etc, aren't they circumventing the system? If I quit my job for 6 months and make zero income, I'd qualify for Chapter 7. I "knowingly" know that I will get a job after discharge and can make $50K the next 6 months. So technically, I'm like the OP, I'd be getting a $50K check once I discharge. Its semantics but the same concept.