Motion to Dismiss

[accentone]

What the heck? Geez, ffj2002, nothing here looks too unreasonable to me. I don't even see cable, water or any kind of insurance on here. Wow. Now I'm spooked, again.

[Lightning]

Seems a bit strange that you have no insurance, medical, or car maintenance expenses. I can understand 2 children grow, but do they really spend nearly $2,000 a year on uniforms?

[Pinktiger]

$2,000 a year is not very much for four people, Lightening. I assume that that was the expense, not just for the kids.

[accentone]

besides, the kids don't wear uniforms 24/7. I'm sure they wear other things, too. And kids DO grow like weeds.

[hhou812hh]

doesn't look like substantial abuse here. The judge looks at several items that decide substantial abuse. They would look to see if your lifestyle would greatly improve if granted a ch7 discharge and yours doesn't look like it will.

Did you incur any of the debt recently, 6 months, 9 months, etc.? They probably want to know that since you're -188 per month, why did you take on more cc debt? If the debt was incurred a year or more then the judge would probably be ok with that. If you incurred any major debt in the last several months prior to filing they will probably ask you how you intended on paying it back with -188 income.

I'm no authority on this I read several cases I found various sites similar to yours.

[sunshine08]

I would think that the clothing allowance would consist of uniforms, everday clothes (like after school for the kids), work wear for adults, underclothes, pj's, shoes, (play shoes, dress shoes, bedroom shoes, you get the picture)coats,......... $2,000 a year for four is less than $50 a month per person for clothing items.
Where are you putting the medical, car & homeowners insurance? No medical bills? No car maintenance? Maybe your atorney needs to be a little more detailed with the amounts (or is that the way you gave them to him). Maybe that is what the trustees are questioning. Are there any other income sources or any assitance with your bills? Family members that help that type of thing. Trustees want to know these things. Go back over your petition, make sure there were no errors, etc on it, no transposed #'s etc. Be able to provide sufficient documentation to support these figures.
Also, I can about guarantee that the trustee will ask how you got in this position. Be able to reasonably explain. Because one thing he will want to know is how you were able to keep afloat this long. Evidently you had credit and were able to pay for it, what is the "change" I also believe you were asked about balance transfers, cash advances etc. In your case they may look back a little longer than the normal time frame. If you have done any of those be prepared 1. to explain 2. to justify 3. explain some more.
I also don't quite understand the amount for daycare. When you said uniforms, I assumed school age, if the daycare amount is the "norm" for your area, you may want to provide documentation of that also. Go to couple daycares and get price list. Or are they in private school? Hope we can give you some areas to investigate to clear this up, because I can promise that the things listed here and in other posts will be required.
This also doesn't mean that there is a serious problem, it just means there are issues that concern the trustees. We aren't trying to be nosey but this isnt a normal (for lack of better expression) post question topic. The more we know the better answer we can give. Good luck.

[StaciMM]

Just my thoughts-

Food seems high. Ours is under $700/mo for a family of 5, and includes school lunches for 2.

By the comment about the kids wearing uniforms, I assume they are both school age. If so, why is the child care so high? (Day care is most expensive for infants, around $125-175/week each, so after school care should not be as drastic.)

Phone seems high at $200-does that include cable & internet? If so its not unreasonable.

I would assume transportation included vehicle maintenance. There is nothing for heat (maybe house is all electric), water/garbage/sewer, insurance, medical expenses, personal care items.

The other items seem reasonable. The only other questions I could think of when did you take on the 2nd mortgage, and what was that used for? What types of debts did you include in the BK and were they accumulated after the 2nd? What is the home worth? (These were the questions the trustee asked of home owners at my 341.)

[StaciMM]

I agree w/ Sunshine. If things are grouped together, it may make your #'s look suspicious. For example, does 'grocery' include everytihing you get from the grocery store (soap, shampoo, cleaning supplies, paper products, etc.) or just food?

Another quick thought-has your income decreased since you took on the 15 year loan, or did you always have it that way? How does your mortgage payment compare to the IRS guidelines for your county?

[sunshine08]

Thanks StaciMM - Food costs vary alot depending on where you live, probably not outrageous, he also said they don't eat out alot, so eating out expenses may be included.
The items really nedd to be split up, would make it easier for trustees, etc. to see exactly what expenses are. Example $650 groceries $50 eating out $50 personal care items $50 papergoods, pet food, whatever still equals $800 but it is a more detailed explaination of where your money goes.
My cell phones (2 on one plan - can't wait to renew, cells are getting cheaper by the minute) and my house phone comes to $205.
Me personally, question the house payment, but that is also are dependant. Is it 1st & 2nd mortgage, that type thing.
Went over some notes and one thing that our lawyer told us was that be able to explain in incurrance of debt in the last 12 months, why, what for, and how.
Hope this helps. Please keep us posted. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!

[StaciMM]

With the house payment being a large part of the income, that is why I would expect the OP to be questioned about when he took that loan, and how their finances were then compared to now.

We got rid of our home phone, our 2 cell phones run about $60/mo. Our cable bill, on the other hand, is a little higher than typical ($120) as it includes our internet.

[ffj2002]

Thanks for the responses.
Groceries include everthing you can get at a Super Wal Mart. Food to cleaning supplies. We may order pizza or drive through once a week. Daycare is a Chrisian Academey 247.00/wk. We do have insurance included, cell phones, internet, and direct tv. Mortgage is 6 years old. 4% fixed. 2nd mortgage was used for home improvements. I knew the mortgage broker. We were debt heavy then, but current on everything. We are alone, no babysitters or family help. We actually help the family. Sick mother and sister. Father is on disability. We paid our bills and got trapped in the balance transfer options. That's probably a lot of what they are seeing. We didn't incur any new debt, we just kept swapping it around. Some recent some old. Rates were rising because we had high debt, not because we missed payments. That was driving me nuts, people who make their payments should have lower rates, really angered me. When they were too high per monthly payment, we could no longer meet all of the bills. We had no plans on filing. We just realized that we had no future, we were holding on by a very thin string and each month we would fall a little more behind. We just found out that we are expecting, and yes we were taking precautions, and that would send us over the edge. The good Lord will let you know when it is time to have a child, two of ours were when we were being careful and on the pill. Even though it is unexpected, we are excited about a new one. Wife is going to be missing work for awhile and maybe forever if the numbers make sense. We filed after a good ole eye opeing experience. Couldn't believe the numbers after they were put on paper. Thanks

[StaciMM]

ff-
Breaking down your expenses will help, I think. For things like the day care, the trustee may not like it-but I believe if you can document that you really are paying it, then they can't argue it.

Your home situation sounds sensible-Its not like you refi'd to pay off your credit cards then ran them back up... I don't know if anyone has asked but where do you stand in terms of home equity and what you're allowed? For the transfers, when was the last one? Creditors w/ recent transfers onto their account may have a beef if it was TOO recent.

Make sure the trustee is aware of the soon to be new addition. That will impact your future expenses. (Which could turn a borderline case into a no brainer.)

I know you've got alot on your plate... From what you've posted about your situation, and the comments others have made, my theory is that you drew a trustee that questions anyone w/ a higher than average income & that some of your expenses would raise an alarm - but they're understandable considering you lumped things together.

We recently decided to go from being a family w/ 3 jobs and 2 car payments to a family w/ 2 jobs and 1 car & payment. Major relief! Our bottom line is about the same, but we'll have a better quality of life!

[djt]

Wow!!!! This scares the dickens out of me. Although my income is quite a bit lower I have the same sort of story. I got caught in the cycle of transferring the debt until the CC's started raising rates for carrying large amounts of debt. I likewise had never missed payments, and they send you letters saying that you have 15 days to respond to a rate increase. It doesn't matter if you get it. I use online payment and therefore almost never open statements. The last straw was when one CC raised my rate to 29.99% after I had never been late. I believe my minimum payment was close to $175 and it didn't even cover the interest each month. I called them to say that I never received a letter. They said too bad. Pay us (in so many words). Everything is ok when the interest rates and minimum payments are low but when they lure you in with 0% and then jack it up to 18% and no one else will allow you to transfer balances, you're screwed.

I hope the fact that my balances had been going down slowly but surely these last 6 months except for one card. I used it to pay cable, phone, and other utilities because I barely had enough to cover the other cards.

I'm glas you are letting us analyze your case, and I hope they don't make you convert to a chapter 13. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[edwards2]

I can so relate to this situation. We got the infamous letter from the trustee re: motion to dismiss. It is scary to say the least but it doesnt mean it will happen; what it does mean is you have to address the trustee's concerns asap. The trustee sent us a list a mile long of paperwork she wanted; we gave it to our attorney - it took days to assemble and he delivered it to her prior to the 2004 Exam. Your lawyer can find out specifically what the trustee's issues are so you will know exactly what you have to have to satisfy him/her. That is what you have a lawyer for. Good luck! Its not over until it is over.....

[quest42]

Thanks for sharing your story, which educates us all about some possibilities. I hope it all goes well for you. Keep updating here, please.