cash assets

[CH33 Paralegal]

having 18% of your wages go to 401(k) will most likely cause a faith issue as well. Even though the 401(K) is protected, you can't just dump all your funds into it for sake of filing. The trustee can object to that.

You can criticize my quotation marks, but I'm just trying to give you some help on how the court and trustee will view these expenses, so discount what I know however you want. I'm one of the people on here trying to let people know what's really going to happen, not just tell you it will be ok.

I'll tell you this....none of the attorneys at the firm I'm a paralegal at would tell you different than me regarding those two expenses.

[CH33 Paralegal]

and if you want my real opinion, I think you have no business filing a 7, based off some of the facts you have shared with us.

[ndebt2009]

also, "summer camp" and "private school" don't go over well in a 7. You might be required to show the true NECESSITY of that very school and that very summer camp.

I'm wondering myself ... We're looking into it with our atty. if he ever replies.

The Camp and School are one in the same and are where the kids have been going for several years ... does that show necessity?

[DeadManCrawling]

I think you will be forced into a 13.

If you go to court and explain that it is "necessary" for the kids to go to that camp just because they have for the last couple years, it will not go over well.

There are so many pitfalls with your stated story that will likely cause you to be in a 13 or be dismissed for abuse.

You need to find ways to turn these "luxuries" (cash on hand, summer camps, etc.) into some truly necessary expenses (medical, food, etc.) or be prepared to land in a 13.

Good luck to you and your family!

[DeadManCrawling]

In case I came across as harsh in my last post, that was not my intent. To further explain:

Plenty of young folks do NOT attend a 9k summer camp and do just fine. This is what the court will likely say.

To the trustee, that camp fee alone equates to $850/month or so that can be paid back to creditors. Ditto the cost of private school. It may be accepted in some districts, but not in others.

Also, if there truly is 2-4k in extra cash per month, you will be very hard-pressed to find a way to justify a 7.

Best wishes!

[Trixie007]

Questions:
1. Will the original 6k be concidered a payment of "preference"?

2. Will the 9k for Summer camp be concidered a payment of "preference"?

3. Besides the spending spree ... what can we do?

JMO -
1. Could he be thinking that because you paid in arrears? - You say you paid in May for April & May, so maybe that's how he's looking at it, otherwise, it's just payment for services, isn't it?

2. How old are your kids - do they require daycare? If so, is that comparable to what daycare would cost in your area for a whole Summer? If it is, I don't know how that would be preference.

3. If tuition is 3k/Mo for the school, could you have the school put you on a level payment plan and start making payments now? ie 3k x 9 mos = 27k / 12 mos = 2,250/mo. Also, I'm pretty sure your kids are going to grow, so why not buy non-style-critical items in larger sizes - underwear, socks, pj's, tennies, etc - you can always reduce your clothing budget later to recoup that money, if you're careful.

Does anyone need braces? Glasses?

We had to spend 12k in about a month, and you're right, as fun as it sounds, it is stressful! It's hard knowing that you'd be better off saving that money for an emergency or for your new start, but it's easier than being stuck under all that debt!

[ndebt2009]

yes the kids ara all under 10 and we both work days.

I'm sure we can work out a plan like that suggested but to our benifit they also will allow a lump sum at the beginning of the year which we are considering to do.

I read on another site that Banks can freeze assets if you default on that banks Credit Card, which applies to us. Is this true? Should I move all of our bank accounts? Can we move our accounts?

[Trixie007]

Yes, Yes & Yes!

[ndebt2009]

In case I came across as harsh in my last post, that was not my intent. To further explain:

Plenty of young folks do NOT attend a 9k summer camp and do just fine. This is what the court will likely say.

To the trustee, that camp fee alone equates to $850/month or so that can be paid back to creditors. Ditto the cost of private school. It may be accepted in some districts, but not in others.

Also, if there truly is 2-4k in extra cash per month, you will be very hard-pressed to find a way to justify a 7.

Best wishes!

no problem on harshness ... if you can't be brutally honest on a message board ... where can you !?

Right now we are paying utilities, food, clothing, 1 car payment, gas, and that's about it except for daycare. So yeah .. there is cash left over. We are not paying our mortgage, heloc, HO insurance, or ccards anymore. Our housing expenses are 0$ until the foreclosure is processed.

BTW the camp and school fees are for 3 kids - 9 hrs a day ... it is fairly reasonable for the area that we live.

[hopeforus]

yes, you need to switch banks asap. We switched from USAA to USBank but then learned that USBank was now with Elan Financial and we have a card with them. So now we just last week moved to a locally owned bank and we should be ok with them. So maybe find a locally owned bank?

[Cheeseater]

Hope I didn't come across as telling you everything would be great and easy. I am curious as to the fact that your kids are in all day care and you are not working. I too am in construction as a sole proprietor. My wife makes over the state median but we means test out of a 13 and into a 7. The biggest reason I haven't filed as of now is my concern of being forced into a 13. While I feel my expenses are real and legitimate the trustee will only see money I should be paying my creditors. After reading other posters experiences with abuse claims and conversions I fear the same might happen to me.
I just don't want my books open to review for 5 years. I don't know how you do your accounting or how slow you are now but it is something to consider. If my attorney told me slam dunk 7 I'd file tomorrow.

Once again did mean to anger other posters. Best of luck to you and your family.