Are schedules I & J based on previous 6 months or looking forward?

[lalap123]

Here is my dilemma...I will be barely under the median income when I file, however, this is including two large sums of money that we do not plan on having every year (instead of being wages that are predictable). When the trustee looks at my budget and expenses will he/she be basing them on the average of what I "brought in" over the past 6 months or will they look at what comes in on a regular monthly basis?

In other words, we got a large tax refund this year that in fact will count as income (confirmed by attorney this week), but we'll be changing our deductions so that we don't get such a large one next year. The other source of income was that my DH sold some of his property which brought in several thousand dollars.

Can anyone shed light on this?

[JoeBankrupt33]

Schedule I is based on your current income and employment, not on the 6 month average. Schedule J is your budget as you move on from bankruptcy. This can include expenses that you did not have in the previous 6 months. For instance, maybe you haven't purchased any new clothes because you couldn't, but clothing expenses should be what you expect to spend when you are not consumed by your debt.

[brokeasajoke]

I've got a question relating to this. I met with my lawyer today... She's filled out my schedule I based on the same numbers averaged in means test. It is impacting my schedule J now, I've had a series of paycuts this year and based on means test numbers for income comp'ed to schedule J, I'm positive 132. Based on my current income, I'm negative about 700.00.

She wants me to "beef up" my expenses. I don't want to do that because I fear I can't substantiate it.

Is it possible that she is correct in using 22A numbers for schedule I? Perhaps a "local rule" or something? Everything I can find (including the document itself) says it is "CURRENT" and likely different from 22A. I just emailed her questioning the entire schedule I/J presented but was curious if anyone has any insight here?

Thanks!

[Klesko]

I am pretty sure they use your ongoing expenses for example if you are giving up a car they wont take that payment into account on the schedule J form. But they do use your 6 months average pay. NOT your current pay or your pay going forward.

[eddiep]

Can you wait for that extra income to fall off before you file?
They will use your current income on schedule I not your previous income, just remind your attorney when filling out the schedules.
did your lawyer confirm that the sold property will count as income?

[OhioFiler]

I've got a question relating to this. I met with my lawyer today... She's filled out my schedule I based on the same numbers averaged in means test. It is impacting my schedule J now, I've had a series of paycuts this year and based on means test numbers for income comp'ed to schedule J, I'm positive 132. Based on my current income, I'm negative about 700.00.

She wants me to "beef up" my expenses. I don't want to do that because I fear I can't substantiate it.

Is it possible that she is correct in using 22A numbers for schedule I? Perhaps a "local rule" or something? Everything I can find (including the document itself) says it is "CURRENT" and likely different from 22A. I just emailed her questioning the entire schedule I/J presented but was curious if anyone has any insight here?

Thanks!

You hired the attorney. I would recommend you follow her advice.

[brokeasajoke]

I understand the fact that I need to follow her advice but at the same time, I'm having to sign all of the papers saying it is the honest truth. I want to make sure I fully understand each schedule because I'm ultimately responsible.

That all being said, she emailed me back last night saying she agrees that Sch I should be modified to reflect my current income. My income is very steady month to month, but it has been cut approximately 20% so far this year. It's been quarterly cuts and all are permanent. She said she typically uses a 6 month look back for folks like me who are in the same job, same company but after thinking about the situation, she is going to use a 3 average to get my current level.

I think that she answered my question though, Sch I is the current income but the number must be truthfully derived from some previous time period. That part of it is a judgment call and needs to have a level of substantiation behind it, it's not a cut a dry formula...

[optimistic1]

If anything happens, just lay the blame on the attorney and tell the court, she told you to beef up the expenses.

Good thing she listened to your advice, the Schedule I should yield a different number than the 6 month averaging, these lawyers need to go buy the NOLO Bankruptcy book, I swear.

[brokeasajoke]

I was real close to filing Pro Se, if I hadn't found this particular lawyer, I would have. She has common sense combined with the credentials. I understand that BK firms typically use set formulas and such in filling out schedules. When I interviewed her, I had already read Nolo, filled out Sch I, J and 22A. I questioned several things she told me initially and she was the only lawyer who had the gumption to say so if she didn't know the answer. Her response to several things, "Good question, let me investigate it and get back to you..." Then she did just that. To me, that says a lot. At the end of it all, my numbers and her numbers will be off by rounding margins. That makes me think that we've done it right. I guess that's the best I can hope for at the end of filing. At least I can play the "lawyer told me to do it" card if something gets questioned but hopefully we can avoid that....

It is irritating that I have pay 1500.00 to have someone tell me what the local rules are for certain things on these schedules. I guess 1500.00 to discharge 82000.00 isn't too bad though.

[icyjay01]

If anything happens, just lay the blame on the attorney and tell the court, she told you to beef up the expenses.

Good thing she listened to your advice, the Schedule I should yield a different number than the 6 month averaging, these lawyers need to go buy the NOLO Bankruptcy book, I swear.

I am looking at a simular situation, 3 different Lawyers telling me 3 different things, if I were to hire one of them and provide everything they want and ask of me and the trustee doesnt like it, can I blame it on the Lawyer for not doing the paperwork correctly?

[optimistic1]

You should be able to do that, but who knows.

What I am doing is, the day I sign papers, I will be looking over the petition very carefully, and I am bringing my book. If anything comes up, I am going to quickly show the attorney the mistake and show them what the book says.

I was like you, I interviewed almost 10 attorneys, and alot of them had no clue what they were even talking about.

[icyjay01]

You should be able to do that, but who knows.

What I am doing is, the day I sign papers, I will be looking over the petition very carefully, and I am bringing my book. If anything comes up, I am going to quickly show the attorney the mistake and show them what the book says.

I was like you, I interviewed almost 10 attorneys, and alot of them had no clue what they were even talking about.

As someone looking to file chapter 7, I keep hearing about the Nolo books, which book do you recommend I read?

[frogger]

You hired the attorney. I would recommend you follow her advice.

That's some of the best advice you'll ever get...

[optimistic1]

As someone looking to file chapter 7, I keep hearing about the Nolo books, which book do you recommend I read?

http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/ObjectID/F87C0B36-D2FB-4FE2-801B76AD0792C01A/catid/283B9600-ECC3-49ED-9D9A20A3E13F42E0/213/161/128/

[PdxDavid]

Just bought the NOLO CH7 book myself. If you are going with the download ebook don't forget to use the coupon code A416 when I bought it last week for $10 off making it 7.99.

Just tested the code and it still works.