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Ch. 13-7 Help! We feel like the Titanic & just hit an Iceberg!

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    Ch. 13-7 Help! We feel like the Titanic & just hit an Iceberg!

    I'm sorry for the extreme length of this post. I read this forum every night and it's been a great source of info.
    I REALLY need help!! I'm ready for a nervous breakdown and my poor wife is losing it also.
    We've been in a ch. 13 for 26 mths. $632 for 60 mths. When we filed we were over median. Owed IRS & state $15,000. Unsecured $150,000 Secured about $75,000 My wife owns an LLC w/ 15 employees & I am one of them. At the time of filing our bank had a blanket security interest w/ a perfected lien on all assets of the business which includes equip,name,client list,A/R,vehicles, EVERYTHING. Our attorney put $0 for the value of the business assets and put a statement that the co. had a negative worth after accounting for the loan. At the time I took a good salary. No 341 objections, and plan approved.
    We feel like the Titanic. All was going well and we just hit an iceberg.

    Since that time we've paid off a car lease, a JD tractor and paid down our tax bill to about $9000. We got a $3500 tax refund that we put in the bank but have since used for business expenses only. Everything is carefully documented.

    I haven't taken a salary for the last 6 mths. The profit on the business along with our rental income from our 2-family of which one side is our residence, is below state median. We expected to have business pick up as it has for the last 15 yrs. But so far dead. And our biggest client (auto supplier) just cut our contract to where our net profit has gone from $900 a wk. to $100. We heard today that a customer who we do $7,000 worth of work every 3rd wk. of May isn't having us do it this yr. We've always been behind thru the winter and caught up in the summer.

    Now we are $5000 behind in our payroll tax deposits. We just found out that we owe the IRS $6000 for last year even though we paid in $10,000. We still owe $1000 for oil. Our yellow page ads are due Tues. for $2500 and by end of month we have a $6000 yrly. deposit on our wk.comp/liability/auto for the year.

    We are under water with our house by about $75,000. Our two vehicles are worth far less than the loan balance and the balance on our one big loan for a mini excavator are 1/2 what it was when we started the ch. 13. BUT....we are current on our mortgages (3), current on all loans and BK pmts.

    So after writing this book to you all, here's my questions:
    1) Will we be forced to lose the house?
    2) We have no personal assets I'm afraid of losing but we do have mini excavator that's worth $11,000 +- and I owe $6000. Can we use one of our wildcards which would cover it and let the trustee take anything else or will we lose it?
    3) Assets of business which include 5 vehicles that are in the LLC's name and our A/R's are worth about $10,000 more than what we owe on everything to the bank. But the bank has told us they would reaffirm with us. They don't want it. Collectively they are worth what I said above, but sold separately, it'd be questionable because everything is getting old w/ high mileage. Do the taxes we'd owe if everything sold because it's all been depreciated come into play? After Trustee commission, seizure expenses, paying payroll and business expenses up to filing date, there would be almost nothing left and we'd have no way to make a living.

    I've emailed all of this to our attorney. He was awesome getting us thru the confirmation and even met with us since. But now that he's completely paid I can't reach him. I'm sure he's swamped. What do I do??????

    #2
    Wow, no wonder you guys are about to crack, sounds very stressful!

    I can't answer most of your questions, but as far as the house goes, if you are current on your mortgage and you dont have more equity than you can exempt you won't lose your home.

    Good luck

    Comment


      #3
      The first step might be to stop by his office even without an appointment. Talk to him about a conversion to a Chapter 7. Explain the situation. Take what you can to prove loss of income etc. Depending on yours state's exemptions on the home you might can keep it or even reaffirm it. Go when you can wait til he has free time to speak to you, or he makes an appointment to talk to you at a later date .

      Tax debt is priority debt so basically any funds gained in a liquidation would go to them and secured creditors first, with unsecured only getting funds if any remained. Trustee takes his cut first.
      May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
      July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
      September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

      Comment


        #4
        I realize that Ch. 7 leaves taxes intact. And they will add the interest and penalties back in, but once the trustee finds out we're behind on taxes, she'll dismiss our 13 anyways, right? We are on a 11% plan and were doing fine the first 1 1/2 yrs. But this last 6 mths. have been awful.
        I guess you told me something we're both afraid of. In a chapter 7, it's shoot 1st and then ask questions? They will just liquidate our business assets and divide it among the secured creditors? We had hoped that between what the bank was owed, then payroll taxes, trustee fees,aucioneer fees, taxes on sale of items, it JUST WOULDN'T be worth doing to the trustee and our bank said they didn't want it. They said they'd reaffirm w/ us.
        I didn't think it was possible to go from 60 to 0 and now to -60 (mph)

        Comment


          #5
          First, I'm so sorry that your business is struggling so badly right now. So many self-employed folks are finding themselves sliding downhill rapidly as the economy has worsened.

          As difficult as it's been to reach your lawyer, you really must talk with your lawyer about your rapidly worsening situation. Call the office and explain your business is tanking. Make sure it's crystal clear to whoever answers the phone that you won't be able to maintain your Ch 13 payment along with all your other required business and personal payments very soon and *MUST* speak to your lawyer as soon as humanly possible. And if this doesn't get a call back from your lawyer within 48 hours (some days they are in court all day), call back and set up a face to face emergency appointment for within the week. And if that doesn't work, as already suggested, go sit in the office until your lawyer sees you. It's hard but this is the time to be proactive for yourselves and get the connection you need with your lawyer quickly.

          No one here is going to be able to tell you with any certainty what's going to happen to your business if you are able to convert to Ch 7. Your lawyer is the best option because he/she understands everything about your financial situation and how the Ch 7 trustees in your local court deal with personally owned businesses during Ch 7.

          Just because you file Ch 7 doesn't automatically mean your business will be liquidated. Go find out the facts because stressing out before you even know what's coming is a waste of precious energy. I so hope that everything works out in your favor - hang in there!
          I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

          06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
          06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
          07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
          10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
          01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
          09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
          06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
          08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

          10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
          Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

          Comment


            #6
            As lrprn says liquidation may not occur, after all a business that has no income/equity is valued at 0. You really need to talk to your lawyer. As he says make sure whoever is on the phone knows your going to miss your Chapter 13 payment and that you really need to discuss the options or go camp out like I suggested.
            May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
            July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
            September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

            Comment


              #7
              lrprn is correct. Your Chapter 13 situation has changed drastically since you filed. It is imperative you get ahold of your attorney ASAP as to what can be done. Once you get a handle on the situation and have a road to follow, you will start to feel better as you will have some control over the situation. Monday morning, call your attorney's office again and if your attorney is not in, speak directly to his assistant or paralegal or the receptionist if they are not there (get a live body) that you need to talk to the attorney immediately and that if you don't hear back from him in 24 hours, you will physically stop by. That should get someone moving. Best of luck to you!
              _________________________________________
              Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
              Early Buy-Out: April 2006
              Discharge: August 2006

              "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you. This is turning out to be a real bad day for both my wife and myself. She's been ignoring the situation because our lawyer was very loose with our numbers and told us not to worry if emergencies came up, just pay them as we go. And as I said, we're paying 12% on $160k unsecured. No objections and instant confirmation. We don't have a fixed income like most people. Some months we take in $15k and others we take in $60k. Last month we took in $50k. But honestly, after paying our payroll, which we've never missed in 15 yrs., paying our bills (BK,mortgages,business expenses) we were negative $4k. We haven't been away together overnite in 7 yrs. We've been out to dinner once in the last year and it wasn't our anniversary. We've spent $224.80 on clothing in the last year. I am the business manager and track EVERY expense by Quickbooks and Quicken. But we never can figure out why there isn't enough to stay even. Even I'm starting to crumble. We love our house. In the country and our best friends of 10 yrs. rent 1/2 of it from us and we have 6 dogs. And when I have a real bad day, I go out and dig up stumps and rocks with my Bobcat X331. My wife plays with her dogs. We're both just so afraid of losing everything. Like I said, our business and personal assets have lost so much value in the last two yrs. that after going over the BK filing and adjusting, our personal exemptions and two wildcards would almost exempt any equity we have in everthing.
                I'm going to call my lawyer and leave a message now and call tomorrow.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I'm curious about something though.
                  We have one personal car that has a loan balance of $22k. The KBB value is $17k. It's a 2007 w/ 14k miles. And it's been sitting unregistered since 1/30/09. Priorities.

                  We have 5 vehicles in the business name only. Two have a lien on them from our bank, one has a lien from Chrysler Financial & the final two have clear titles but are covered by a UCC filed by our bank.

                  Are you allowed to keep only two vehicles, or can you use an exemption on two and the two w/ loans that are more than their KBB value, the bank absolutely does not want they have the UCC and don't want the businessor it's assets back.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Generally you are allowed 1 car per licensed driver in the home. How a business affects that I'm not sure you probably need an experienced bk attorney that does business bk which I hope yours is, I hope you get things settled out.
                    May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
                    July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
                    September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by JRScott View Post
                      Generally you are allowed 1 car per licensed driver in the home. How a business affects that I'm not sure you probably need an experienced bk attorney that does business bk which I hope yours is, I hope you get things settled out.
                      What if the drivers are minor children? We have three cars (one has loan), one truck (blown engine) and one motorcycle and we have enough exemptions to cover them all. Can we keep them all?

                      Comment

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