Did my ex girlfrield commit fraud? Should I report or...?

[OregonMom]

I come from a family with many divorces and child support issues. One that seemed to work out the best was with my step mom and her ex. They had two boys together and basically split the time equally and nobody paid child support. The boys pretty much stayed half the week at one place and half at the other. They lived close by so it worked out great. When the boys needed something big they worked out the cost together.
The more you take your son the less support you have to pay, my brother in law only has his kids every other weekend so he only gets them like 10% of the year so he has to pay his ex 90% of child support costs. If you were doing 50/50 you would have your son 50% of the time.

[jeb]

Lol...yeah, it hurt my eyes, too. I changed it to red and I'll try to delete the yellow post.

And just what is wrong with black? - jb

[queenfluff]

I wouldn't do anything because there is a child that will definatley be hurt by all this. You hurt the mom and you hurt the child. Even though I am not a single mom and have no kids (by choice) I can still imagine how hard it is. Even my married friends with kids - how complicated their lives are. A split family must be even worse.

I don't know what your ex is like but I am sure she is doing this because she (like all of us on this forum) is in financial duress. She is stressed and worried esp for your son. It could be possible that she didn't purposely miss those things on her paperwork. Maybe her lawyer screwed up?

If you report her, it will really mess things up for her and your son and cause a rift between you three for the rest of your lives. I think reporting her is going to cause so many more cons for her and your son and few pros for you. She will be mad that you are "checking" on her business like that. You guys aren't married so you except for your son - you have no claim over her life.

No offense to you as you seem like you are a decent guy, but you seem to be wasting a lot of energy "checking up" on her and you guys are not together anymore. Maybe you don't care about her anymore but for your son's sake, don't do it. You want him to have a good life right? You don't want him to be hurt right? So nib it in the bud. Lots of people on here look at BK as a private thing - and if they tell anyone it is only their closest family members and friends. Give her some privacy here. Why are you wasting 8 cents a page on Pacer to spy? I know you say they are public records and they are - I don't really think they were made public for exs to check up on their exs and see how they can cause them grief.

If it is still bugging you for whatever reason (money or whatever), why don't you call her and calmly talk to her about? Just say you were curious to what is happening with her and you are interested for your son's sake. That way she might see you as more of a concerned and helpful father than a meddling ex. Discuss your money problems too - maybe you guys can work something out.

I know you talk about how you can't afford the high payment for your son and I sympathize with you - but not only does your ex have to worry about money like you do (and obviously she is very worried since she is doing CH 7 - you are not doing it so you can't know what it feels like really to do BK) but she has to worry about raising your son and all the problems that goes with that? Give her a break, eh? Just imagine what it must be like for her too - plus what it is like for your son - not to have a full-time dad around. And all to that the stress of BK. I am sure he doesn't need his mom to be more stressed out than she now. And trust us on this forum, BK is WAY stressful!!!

Believe me your ex will get lots of much needed relief from this which will benefit her and your son - just filing can make you feel like the boulder finally rolled off your shoulder. Don't put a wrench in her plans to better her and your sons life.

I wish you good luck and I hope you and your ex find a solution. I am sure you are both well-meaning people who want the best for your son. But, sheesh, please stop "spying" on her BK on Pacer. I am sorry, and no offense to you personally, but it is just plain creepy (as a woman if I thought one of my ex's was checking up on me like that I would be creeped out!). If you want to know more about it, talk to her and keep yourself busy with your own life and focus on your son.

Maybe I missed it reading the old posts as this thread is pretty long but how did you find out about this in the first place to want to start peaking on PACER?

[oneklub]

I found a post where a person asked if child support is income. Very Interesting.

http://www.bkforum.com/archive/index.php/t-34174.html

Luci

That's a great link, Luci.

Thanks.

[Flamingo]

Your points are reasonable. Tell me what you think of my responses:

1)"Snooping" - not really. Bankruptcy information is public (in some communities it is posted in a public forum -- community center, journal, etc). Secondly, we are obligated by court order to disclose financial information to each other every year. Thirdly, in the court "discovery" phase, attorneys MUST be given a true account of income and expense information. And finally, several times she promised to send income/expense information to me but never has. She will consider it "snooping" cause you will be looking this up behind her back when you know if she wanted you to know, she would tell you. You yourself state initially that she does not know that you know and when you tell her you actually joined a site and had to pay to view the information, duck because the fan is going to make it fly. Public information or not. All that information does not appear in the newspaper - you have to go look for it.

2) If I file for a change in support, as you mention, this bankruptcy will be brought up in the discovery phase...unless we discuss this issue beforehand, that would blindside her and could expose her to serious legal trouble. That is up to you as it is a personal decision. If you did not know about this BK, how would your relationship be with her now? Are you more worried about yourself and your funds? Your relationship with her or that she could have provided fraudulent information for her BK? Your initial post suggests your worry about fraud...did she really do that or as another poster suggested did she provide all the correct information she had and listed figures under attorney guidance?

3) For the sake of my mental health, I try (TRY) to confront most issues head on. I see productive confrontation as a difficult but necessary part of any honest and healthy relationship. Again, your own personal decision. You can get all the advice in the world from 100 different people but you will do what you want to do.

4) I think the discharge was very helpful to her. But, if it was not done honestly...well, she used Chapter 7 but perhaps Chapter 13 is an option (assuming the support amount put her over the limit for Chapter 7...this is conjecture, though).

Again, you worry about honesty and fraud....as I mentioned previously this will always bother you unless you let it go or bring it up and let it out in the open. You are concerned about saving money now that her expenses are less; you personally have to figure out how you want to approach this if at all. You have excellent advice on this forum; I know your funds are low but if this continues to bother you, consult a counselor to get a professional opinion.

[jennordhavn]

Actually, now that I think of it, it's $900 from me and $900 from her (50/50 split). That means, theoretically, that she should be paying a total $1800/month to raise our infant son. I find that hard to believe.

That is not how child support works. Child support is based on the income of both parents and the percentage of time each parent has the child is his/her custody. Expenses are not factored in (except for daycare and health care). It also takes into account your filing status for taxes. So if you make significantly more than she does, you would pay more for the child (although it may be a similar percentage of income). For example (I am using fake numbers just to show a simple example): If you made $50k and she made $25k, you may pay $10k per year for the child and she would contribute (theoretically, of course) $5k. It's not a 50/50 split. The theory behind this is that the child should benefit from the lifestyle of both parents. It doesn't matter if she only spends $500/mo. on the child in actual expenses. The entire lifestyle is more expensive. Housing, food, health care, activities, etc. are all more expensive when you have a child.

[oneklub]

Thank you all for your responses.

The thread seems to be veering off topic now (more about child support legalities and relationships instead of my original question which focused on bankruptcy and reporting requirements). The comments are helpful, but at this point I think I've moved the conversation away from what this forum is for -- bankruptcy.

I apologize.

Again, thanks for your help and wish all of us luck!

[TheAbyss]

Darn, I got into this thread too late. In case you're wondering, I would have suggested ripping her a new one. She'd probably do the same to you, if the situation were reversed.

Anyway, good luck.

[AlreadyFiled]

if you feel you want your child support payments reduced then just deal with that part only. You can have your payment amount modified with the courts but other then that, let her personal business w bankruptcy go. Leave that part alone, its her business. The child support payment modification is your business, and that alone.

[sophia]

I don't think $900 a month child support for a child any age is enough.

You should not report her just because there is a "possibility" of fraud.

I think you should increase the support another $300 a month.
On top of that you should voluntarily buy shoes, clothes, gifts etc. every month.

And before you ask, no, I AM NOT being sarcastic. $900 a month for an infant is nothing, especially when you factor in food, formula, diapers, daycare, babysitters, time off work, etc. etc.


Move on and get over her and just let her raise your kid with a clean slate and a brighter debt free future.

[Logan]

You know the saying: All's fair in love and war.

Would you have paid less child support if she had declared BK sooner or had told the judge about her BK filing? If so I would press this issue.

If your Child support would be the same whether or not she declared BK I would let it go.

Maybe you could start a conversation saying I want to go back to court to have the judge revisit the child support since you have not been completely honest with your financial situation.

Logan