What does the trustee know before the 341?

[kathy4530050]

Can anyone tell me what the trustee knows about a case before the 341 meeting? My attorney asked for 6 months of bank statements and 2 years of tax returns. Does he forward these to the trustee before the 341? Or does the trustee just see all of the schedules?

I'm trying to understand why some people have uneventful 5 minute 341 meetings and others seem to come under suspicion almost immediately. Is there anything you can do in advance to make sure your 341 falls into the 5 minute category?

Thanks!

[dingdong]

The Trustee has access to everything filed in your case. Usually they send a letter/postcard requesting other info if they need it. Like tax returns, etc.


If they need more, they will usually request it before hand or possibly ask for it at the 341 and possibly continue the 341 to a later date.


If you come to the 341 "well armed" meaning anticipating a request, you may be able to prevent a continuation if you have the info with you, though I would not voluntarily offer it unless requested.

[kathy4530050]

The Trustee has access to everything filed in your case. Usually they send a letter/postcard requesting other info if they need it. Like tax returns, etc.


If they need more, they will usually request it before hand or possibly ask for it at the 341 and possibly continue the 341 to a later date.


If you come to the 341 "well armed" meaning anticipating a request, you may be able to prevent a continuation if you have the info with you, though I would not voluntarily offer it unless requested.

DingDong,

Are you saying that they don't automatically get copies of all of the documents your lawyer has, but that they can request them if needed?

When I read about some of these really, really brief 341 meetings, I wonder why the trustees don't have more questions for everyone. I thought maybe they already studied every single document and all of their questions were answered. Could that be? What else could account for a 5 minute 341?

[fltoo]

Have to remember that the trustee staff is well trained to do one thing. LOOK FOR MONEY. They know all the ins and outs and have probably seen it all.

If they deem there is nothing to take, they move on. Hence, the 5 minute 341 meeting.

[dingdong]

I can tell you about my personal experience. I don't really have anything else to go off of except that and what I have read on the forum.

I think if a TT looks over your petition, sees you qualify income wise, doesn't notice any red flags like large balance transfers , large CC purchases and possibly a lot of real estate transactions and your bank statements ( if requested) look pretty normal, then the 341 tends to be short and sweet.

I know they can look at state corporate filings if they want to and any other public records to see if you happen to own a biz you are not reporting or other assets. I filed pro se, so I didn't have an attorney handling any of my documents. I suppose if the TT requested of the attorney documents that you already gave your attorney, then the attorney may hand them over, so that is something you could ask your attorney.


My TT requested my last tax return. Looked at if for a second and then said, your good to go, good luck DingDong.

But then there are cases like Jessegirl, who was wrung through the wringer.


So it depends on each case, I guess is the best answer.

If you are no asset and don't have a lot of complicated issues, you should be fine. 341's are not scary. Just the anticipation is the scary part.


There was a debtor at my 341, who was clearly hiding assets, and they were nailed. A lawyer for a creditor showed up and they had their asses chewed.

I actually looked at their case recently, and they were discharged last week. They just ammended their petition and exempted the assets.

The best advice is to be honest. Lay it on the line, if you lose a little something not exempted, it is better than being dismissed and trying to do it all over again.

[kathy4530050]

Have to remember that the trustee staff is well trained to do one thing. LOOK FOR MONEY. They know all the ins and outs and have probably seen it all.

If they deem there is nothing to take, they move on. Hence, the 5 minute 341 meeting.

That makes sense. I have absolutely nothing to take, but still fear that the trustee could simply decide he or she doesn't approve of the decisions I've made and then put the kabosh on the whole thing . . . .

[kathy4530050]

I can tell you about my personal experience. I don't really have anything else to go off of except that and what I have read on the forum.

I think if a TT looks over your petition, sees you qualify income wise, doesn't notice any red flags like large balance transfers , large CC purchases and possibly a lot of real estate transactions and your bank statements ( if requested) look pretty normal, then the 341 tends to be short and sweet.

I know they can look at state corporate filings if they want to and any other public records to see if you happen to own a biz you are not reporting or other assets. I filed pro se, so I didn't have an attorney handling any of my documents. I suppose if the TT requested of the attorney documents that you already gave your attorney, then the attorney may hand them over, so that is something you could ask your attorney.


My TT requested my last tax return. Looked at if for a second and then said, your good to go, good luck DingDong.

But then there are cases like Jessegirl, who was wrung through the wringer.


So it depends on each case, I guess is the best answer.

If you are no asset and don't have a lot of complicated issues, you should be fine. 341's are not scary. Just the anticipation is the scary part.


There was a debtor at my 341, who was clearly hiding assets, and they were nailed. A lawyer for a creditor showed up and they had their asses chewed.

I actually looked at their case recently, and they were discharged last week. They just ammended their petition and exempted the assets.

The best advice is to be honest. Lay it on the line, if you lose a little something not exempted, it is better than being dismissed and trying to do it all over again.

Thanks for all of the info. Especially the part where the trustee said, "You're good to go--good luck DingDong"

Too funny . . .

[dingdong]

Yeah, mine was a cake walk, especially after the debtors I mentioned earlier.

Everyone sat with their jaws on the floor. They were the first to go, so we all were expecting the worst. Everyone else was done in 5 minutes or less.

You will be fine, afterwords you will kick yourself for being so nervous. Then its Martini time!


Woo Hoo!

[tatt2monster]

When I was in my attorney's office waiting room today, I overheard the receptionist tell someone the trustee was on the phone wanting to know such and such, so they obviously follow up.

[StartingOver08]

Oh yes they do - my attorney had to send over lots of info before the 341 - so much so that the 341 was continued so the Trustee could have additional time to review.

One of the things that my attorney did say was every time the Trustee's office called to request a document, he had it and could comply right away. Mainly because he had me supply everything up front - 2000 pages worth of documentation! Just because we don't hear from the attorney's office - doesn't mean they aren't working like crazy to satisfy the Trustee!

[kathy4530050]

Very interesting. I had absolutely no idea that this is how it works . . .

[Brighterdays]

I think if a TT looks over your petition, sees you qualify income wise, doesn't notice any red flags like large balance transfers , large CC purchases and possibly a lot of real estate transactions and your bank statements ( if requested) look pretty normal, then the 341 tends to be short and sweet.

I know they can look at state corporate filings if they want to and any other public records to see if you happen to own a biz you are not reporting or other assets. I filed pro se, so I didn't have an attorney handling any of my documents. I suppose if the TT requested of the attorney documents that you already gave your attorney, then the attorney may hand them over, so that is something you could ask your attorney..

I think yourgiving them too much credit. As I have been advised and read, they don't look at your credit card info, unless something else(objection) comes up. That is the responsibility of the credit card companies. The trustees only job is to sniff out money. You have to answer questions both written and spoken as if you have made any purchases, BT, .... I am sure their is a rare case of some pricky TT that went through somebody's butt with a microscope, but it is rare. According to my attorney in my district they only one 1 bank statement for a current balance of the day of filing.

[dingdong]

I think maybe they look at statements and BTs/ cash advances to see if possibly you took a cash advance and didn't spend it on necessities and maybe socked the money away? Don't know for sure, I didn't have any issues like that personally. My CC were gone long before filing.

I could be wrong, but I have read here on this forum that members have been asked for a couple years of CC statements, so I can only assume they were looking for something. What I have read usually comes after UST involvement,

I know Jessegirl had to provide 2 yrs of CC statements, and she had a hard time getting them from the CC companies. Maybe she can clarify as to why they wanted to see them. Honestly, I don't know exactly why they need them, but they have been asked of debtors before.

[MichiganMan]

Ours was pretty straight forward

The TT definently had to have the 2007 and 2008 tax returns. He had my 2007 and reviewed it and gave it back to me during the 341. He asked why he did not have the 2008 and I told him I filed it April 15th. He said he would continue my 341 until he had a chance to review it. I told him I had it and gave it to him on the spot.

He did not have my bank statements before or after filing and did not ask for them. I had them with me as well. I brought my fanfold folder with everything I have heard on theis forum has been asked for our could be asked for. I think he could tell I could backup anything that was questioned. He asked how i figured the value of guns and I told him how I used the gun value blue book and even used online web sites to price all of my personal belongings. He said he was not aware of any websites for that, and I told him that there is several sites that help you figure out garage sale pricing or value for donating goods according to the IRS standards.

I think I had it together when i went to the 341 and I have a good attorney as well. I gave her everything I had with me in advance so she could awnser anything. I even phot copied the pages out of the gun blue book.

[kathy4530050]

The TT definently had to have the 2007 and 2008 tax returns. He had my 2007 and reviewed it and gave it back to me during the 341. He asked why he did not have the 2008 and I told him I filed it April 15th. He said he would continue my 341 until he had a chance to review it. I told him I had it and gave it to him on the spot.

He did not have my bank statements before or after filing and did not ask for them. I had them with me as well. I brought my fanfold folder with everything I have heard on theis forum has been asked for our could be asked for. I think he could tell I could backup anything that was questioned. He asked how i figured the value of guns and I told him how I used the gun value blue book and even used online web sites to price all of my personal belongings. He said he was not aware of any websites for that, and I told him that there is several sites that help you figure out garage sale pricing or value for donating goods according to the IRS standards.

I think I had it together when i went to the 341 and I have a good attorney as well. I gave her everything I had with me in advance so she could awnser anything. I even phot copied the pages out of the gun blue book.

Glad to hear things went well for you MichiganMan. I haven't filed yet, but hope my 341 goes as well as yours did.