help! don't understand Certificate of Service

[stupidcredit]

I self filed chapter 7. I got a letter from the court saying I'm missing these forms. Am confused by what is needed to complete them.Are they associated with the creitor matrix?Please help. It is stressig me out thinking I might get dismissed if I can't get these done.Here are the links:

http://www.nywb.uscourts.gov/files/2604/service.pdf

http://www.nywb.uscourts.gov/files/2159/Amendment_Cover.pdf

Thanks in advance for any info.

[jessegirl]

For the first one there are only 5 spaces on the sheet. Did you only have 5 creditors?

Not sure about the second one.

Call up Pacer, they will be able to answer your questions for you.

Sorry I couldn't give you the answers you were looking for.

[justbroke]

Don't take this the wrong way at all. Do you have the NoLo Book? If not, you need to get it right now (electronic delivery).

Service Process is very important, and I really don't want to explain it unless I absolutely need to. The NoLo book will go over the service process and what a certificate of service is.

The forms provided are just that... forms which show the "general" format for service.

What it looks like to me, is that you filed an amendment to your petition, but didn't serve it on all parties of interest.

Suffice it to say that it is a required affirmation of "delivery" (service) of papers that must be served (delivered) upon persons/creditors in interest of your filing.

It is required under Rule 7004 but there are other Fed. Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure and Federal Rules of Civil Procedure which may require different types (or allow different types) of service.

[AngelinaCatHub]

As ‘justbroke’ said, a certificate of service is like an affidavit (sworn statement) that you legally mailed a document of legal nature to a person or persons. ANY change to your bk must be mailed to all your creditors (Matrix) and if the form is only five, that is an implied several as if you had fifty, you would have to list them.

Are you pro se? I assume you are as if you had a lawyer, he would have had to do this. The other item is a change form for your papers, to amend in some way. What was changed that you did not amend properly? It costs $26 to make a change.

The Nolo book is worth the investment.

[BKGoddess]

Call the Clerk of the Court on Monday and ask.

They can't give you legal advice but can answer your technical questions.

[justbroke]

Call the Clerk of the Court on Monday and ask.

They can't give you legal advice but can answer your technical questions.

The only thing the Clerk of the Court and/or the Case Manager will tell the debtor, is to point them to the standard local templates for those documents. The poster (stupidcredit) already posted links to the documents the Clerk told him he needed.

I would be impressed if there was a Clerk or Case Manager who would instruct someone on "how" to fill out the form and "serve" it. However, the Case Manager can tell you "who" to serve it on.

In all likelihood, the Clerk instructed the poster (stupidcredit) to serve it upon all parties in interest.

This basically means, mail it to all the entities on the (current) Mailing Matrix. I don't know how much further you can go than that, without giving legal advice.

Service is a particular technical part of any litigation and is where many pro se debtors mess up. Sometimes it goes beyond just mailing out the papers (serving them upon all interested parties), but goes to just whom are you serving them on, and what are the requirements in Fed. R. Bankr. P. Rule 7004 and Fed. R. Civ. P. Rule 4. (I'll concede that it's usually just simply, mailing out a copy with the certificate of service filed with the Court! However, there are subtleties that a pro se debtor may not catch. For example, the Certificate of Service filed with the Court must be a wet signature.)

If the debtor doesn't correct the service issue, generally within 15 calendar days, sanctions can be ordered up to and including dismissal.

As simple as service of process can be (essentially just mailing out true copies of a paper filed with the Court), it can get complex, depending on the type of service (summons, complaint, contested matter, motions.. etc).

I think everything that was posted already in this thread already instructs the debtor (poster) to mail out true copies of the papers (if it was just amendments to the petition, the amendments) along with a certificate of service, by first class U.S. Mail (per Fed. R. Bankr. P. Rule 7004).

I apologize for sounding like a professor, but hoping that the explanation helps someone.

[BKGoddess]

JustBroke

You are completely wrong on all counts.

I am really sick of your attitude of trying to contradict everything everyone says.

I filed pro se and was in contact with the Clerk's office constantly. They were more than happy to give guidance where they could. When they couldn't, they also directed me to places where I could find the answers to my questions.

Believe it or not, I also emailed my trustee and asked her a bunch of questions. Not only she answered all my questions, she actually thanked me for asking them.

You are intimidating pro se filers with wrong and discouraging information.

For your information, Certificate of Service is no more than saying:

"I certify that on this day of this year, I mailed this information to this party via US Mail (or whatever)."

That's all.

[justbroke]

BK, I'm sorry you feel that I contradict everyone. I only attempt to add all information relevant to the question. I went beyond answering the posters question on purpose.

Service is not always as simple as saying "I served this upon all parties in interest". I know this because I have had bad service come back and haunt me. I have also studied 7004 and Fed. R. Civ. P Rule 4(e) on purpose, as well as some cases around it.

Yes, I am one who has always instructed people to talk to their Case Manager to ask procedural questions. Depending on this particular issue, it may be part procedural and part legal. The Case Managers and Clerk's office cannot give legal advice. If you're just asking about procedure the Clerk's office is always first, your Case Manager second, and your Judge's law clerk third (in that order).

My post(s) never stated anyone else who posted was wrong, and I fail to see where I contradicted anything posted. My stating that the Clerk's office is only to give procedural pointers is 100% correct. If they are giving legal advice, they are wrong. I said the same exact thing you posted. Only, I added additional information about what Service of Process is, and that it absolutely goes beyond just stating "I served this on XXX by U.S. Mail".

I am here to help pro se filers. My opinions go further than most posts because I try to give more information that address the full scope of the question. The original question was on Service of Process. My answers covered the scope of Service of Process which goes well beyond just mailing something.

[AngelinaCatHub]

[stupidcredit]

thanks

Thank you to all who have provided info. I TRULY appreciate it.I am filing by myself with the help of one friend who is not a lawyer.
Any other info is greatly appreciated. Any words of advice, anyone who's gone through this, especially with the Western NY region would be greatly appreciated. When I was gonna file, I was told when I called the clerk that there would be someone to help me since I was self-filing. The clerk was helpful and went through the forms. Told me I had everything. Then surprise! I get sent the fact that I didn't have everything in order. Have called the clerk, sent us to the right forms, but no advice.

[justbroke]

I called the clerk that there would be someone to help me since I was self-filing. The clerk was helpful and went through the forms. Told me I had everything. Then surprise! I get sent the fact that I didn't have everything in order. Have called the clerk, sent us to the right forms, but no advice.

This is that fine line between how the Clerk's office can point you in a direction, but can't tell you to GO in that direction. They can't offer advice and hence why I was certain to tell you as such, up front.

If you have specific questions, just start a new thread in this "Pro Se" section of the board. I read this section of the board daily and there are several other "Pro Se" filers on here as well that have been through this. Also, we have some great moderators who have really great experience as well!

I hope that you were able to "serve" those amendments on all the creditors (parties in interest) and get that certificate of service to the clerk showing that you did so!

[fltoo]

JB really was just trying to add to the thread with his experiences. He is pretty good with the pro se filers.


HUB, talk about putting out a match with a firehose! Who elected you the BK forum police?

[dingdong]

Justbroke is my hero.


I will back him up in any dark alley at anytime.


That is all have to say.


Except for this,>>>> reeeeeaaarrr pfffft pfffffft.

(That is a hissing kitty noise by the way)