Can someone please help - 707(b) Meansyes

[katie]

I just logged onto Pacer for the first time and our case says 707(b), Meansyes, No Discharge

Okay, I searched the forum and found out what this means but was wondering if one of or all of these things could be causing it.

Our 341 was April 10th - really uneventful except for these points.

1) I do have stock that I am expecting to surrender to the trustee to help pay off IRS taxes. I only have around $4-5,000 and that will not pay off all of the $8,000 we owe the IRS so there will be nothing left to distribute to other creditors. The trustee did not really seem interested in the stock, but I am expecting him to want it for IRS - if not, I will sell myself to pay IRS after everything is done.

2) At the time of our 341 meeting, our car companies had not provided the court with a secured interest in our cars. Not sure what they are waiting on. We will be reaffirming.

3) Our house/property value on the forms show our assessed value from property tax records. I had talked with the attorney and mentioned to him that the figure was last year's figure and kinda outdated given the rock bottom prices of the current housing market and we had agreed on another value that was about $40,000 less that what was on county records. There is NO way we could get that the assessed value for our house is we tried to sell. Not sure why this new figure wasn't reflected on the paperwork filed with the courts.

Could any of these be the reason for the 707(b), MEANSYES?

Will our attorney be contacting us or do we need to contact them? Surely they know about this, right?

Thanks.

[Kingxray]

Your lawyer can tell you why. I am going through this right now and I gotta say it is a nightmare. The trustee will now probably file a "presumption of abuse" but that does not really explain anything. For us that was followed by a "motion to dismiss under 707", which explains why the trustee filed the presumption of abuse. For us the UST was not allowing some of our expenses and adding them to our income, therefore we don't pass the means test and then the presumption of abuse arises. Sounds like to me the trustee has an issue with one of your expenses and/or income on your means test. Check with your lawyer. They will talk to the trustee and know what the problem is but definetly call your lawyer.

[katie]

Thanks, Kingxray. I was so looking forward to this just being over and starting over fresh. I'll e-mail the attorney's office now and hope for the best!

[TEW]

MEANSYES = presumption of abuse arises. You maybe headed for a chapter 13.

[katie]

Is it possible to just amend some of the figures or something? I did the means test myself and we passed before we went to see the attorney just to kinda see what we were up against. They did the means test as well obviously and we passed again, although the results were a little different. I was pretty close!

Anyway, we literally don't have the money left to do a 13. Then on top of all this, the job my husband just got in January (making 1/4 of what he used to at most) has cut hours back and then may be laying off soon and my overtime has been cut out at my work. Then we will REALLY not be able to fund a 13.

I e-mailed my attorney's office - hopefully, I will get a response soon.

[Kingxray]

This is just from my experience but we passed the means test too. Then the trustee would not allow some expenses and added that to our income and of course after that we did not pass the means test and it showed an extremely high disposable income that was impossible to fund in a 13. That is when they filed the 707 presumption of abuse. We are in the middle all this right now but when I lost my job (even though I did not make much) that seemed to make a difference in our case. See what your lawyer says and tell him/her your current situation. Your lawyer will know what the trustee is disallowing on your means test.

[jessegirl]

Katie We went thru the same BS.... It was a nightmare, time and time again. We filed and within 2 weeks the UST steeped on filed a presumption of abuse and requested numerous information from us. We submitted everything we could but 2 years worth of ever credit card statement. We didn't have them and the CC companies didin't want to deal with us because of the BK. So we submited what we could and then went to our 341 and thought everything was fine, we are waiing for our discharge and the day of - BAM the UST then hits us with a dismissal. The trsutee then requests the same information that they originally got 3 months prior and then requested that they extend our dicharge for 90 more days. Then we get hit with a subpeona to go to court for a 2004 deposition examination with the UST, we did that and were questioned for atleast 1 1/2 hours - 2 hours and then finally we got our discharge about 2 weeks ago. It was a looong and rally hard battle. They were first going for the sbuse and then for the 13 and then for a dismall. It was a nightmare. Make sure that you have an attorney that is going to stay onto of everything for you.You need to check pacer and now and then. Acutally, I was on everyday, I was overcome by all of this. Gather up all information quick when they ask for it. I am now dscharge BUT not closed, ecause we got a letter in the mail saying to extend the closing for another 60 days again.... Goodlcuk to you hun... I truly hope that everythng works out for you. If you want to familarize yourself with what we went thru just look at my posts...Call your attorney as king as said... goodluck

[katie]

Thanks, to you both. I am just sick to my stomach! I thought the 341 was going to be rough and it was really nothing.

Kingxray and jessegirl, I am going to read over your earlier posts. It sounds like you both have really been through it! I hope everything works out well in both of your cases - I will definitely be watching for what happens with you.

[katie]

Okay, just to update. Here is the response from the attorney's office (one of the paralegals).

I did see an objection that was made by the trustee regarding some of your personal property that we exempted. I will check with one of the attorneys when they are available to see what you will need to do regarding the hearing for the objection but other than that just hang tight.

The trustee mentioned at our 341 meeting about our property value. The way it is listed on our paperwork it shows we have about $15,000 of unexempted property. Unless we can use the vehicle exemption (which we have no equity in either) to cover the real estate. Really and truly though, the real estate value is listed too high and needs to be reduced given the current housing market.

Second, I was dumb enough to list $4000 in jewelry!

Our state exemptions are only $28,500 total from what I understand. No equity in vehicles, I doubt we could get half of what the furniture exemption is for our state if we were to sell all of our stuff. We have been married for over ten years and still have the furniture we started out with 11 years ago.

I think I'm analyzing this to death. I just need to wait on the attorney to contact us back and not think another thing about it until then!

[roozterdvx]

Can you have a real estate agent do a comparable or BPO on the property to reflect the current market value?
I would ask your attny if something in writing from a local real estate office would be admitted.