Cash Advances - how much is too much?

[KenInNY]

If I'm going to possibly file a Chapter 7 down the road,
and I need cash right now, . . which is better to take:

A.) One cash advance of $20,000.00 from one bank, or

B.) Two cash advances of $10,000.00 from two different banks.


How and who decides the 'presumption of abuse' factor?

Example:
If I took the $20,000.00 from one bank, would that bank
fight harder to get that money back instead of having 2 banks with
just $10,000.00 each?

Do the individual Creditors (banks) each have there own say, . .
especially when larger amounts are concerned?

Thanks

[chad9162]

I think that amount would be considered abuse..and yes most creditors would go after you. From what I've read, you'd need at least a year before filing BK. Although you could always try to settle later with the trustee.

[HHM]

Doing a cash advance with the "intent" to file BK is fraud regardless.

What you are suggesting is out and out fraud.

But to answer your question, anything more than $1,000 is too much. But it all depends on your timeline for filing. However, as I already mentioned, if you already have the "intent" to file BK and you do a cash advance, regardless of amount, that is BK fraud.

In order to do that sort of a cash advance, you would need to wait AT LEAST A YEAR before filing BK and make the minimum payment the entire time to even have a shot of not getting flagged for fraud.

[KenInNY]

Thanks for the replies.
I'm doing everything I can to avoid bankruptcy, . .
this is just a worse case scenario.
I'm just looking down the road in case.

So which is a better option: A or B, . . or it doesn't really matter.
Thanks

[HHM]

I'm doing everything I can to avoid bankruptcy, . .

Whenever someone says that, that means the NEED TO FILE BK NOW.

If you need to take cash advances now, that means you are bankrupt. Get a grip, get out of denial and go meet with a BK attorney to at least explore and understand your options.

[relief13035]

Fraud is fraud no matter if it is A or B.

[LuciluS]

If I'm going to possibly file a Chapter 7 down the road,
and I need cash right now, . . which is better to take:

A.) One cash advance of $20,000.00 from one bank, or

B.) Two cash advances of $10,000.00 from two different banks.


How and who decides the 'presumption of abuse' factor?

Example:
If I took the $20,000.00 from one bank, would that bank
fight harder to get that money back instead of having 2 banks with
just $10,000.00 each?

Do the individual Creditors (banks) each have there own say, . .
especially when larger amounts are concerned?

Thanks

You would NEVER get away with this. Trustees know how to seek out this type of Fraud. If you filed Bankruptcy, a Trustee could look all the way back to 4-5 yrs. and your Bankruptcy would be Dismissed.

Don't Do It!

Luci

[Floridagail]

I believe the trustee asked me if I had done bal tranf in last 2 yrs or took cash . If you need to do this you should go ahead and file .

[TEW]

Thanks for the replies.
I'm doing everything I can to avoid bankruptcy, . .
this is just a worse case scenario.
I'm just looking down the road in case.

So which is a better option: A or B, . . or it doesn't really matter.
Thanks

looking down the road you are taking the BK option away from yourself.
You have already voiced your intent to commit fraud no one here will help you with that

[danaf]

If you are already insolvent, which it sounds like you are.....this is about the dumbest and most dangerous thing you could do. Even if you did wait a year, the credit card companies can claim fraud based on insolvency. And you can bet your bottom dollar that in this economy that is exactly what they will do. The trustees do ask for anything and everything - including cc statements.

Have you ever thought what it may be like to live in a jail cell? Do you know how hard your life will be with a criminal record?

Don't be a fool. Don't do this - it will bite you in the ass and then tear out your insides.

[Brighterdays]

I believe the trustee asked me if I had done bal tranf in last 2 yrs or took cash . If you need to do this you should go ahead and file .

MY lawyer asked If i had done any in the last 90days before filing. I told her I did some outside the 90days, she asked if any of the money went to my account or straight to the company. I told her I used one of those checks and she said good as it shouldn't be a problem.

Remember, greed is not good. Yes you may get away with it, but chances are you will pay a lot more down the road.

[fltoo]

If you are already insolvent, which it sounds like you are.....this is about the dumbest and most dangerous thing you could do. Even if you did wait a year, the credit card companies can claim fraud based on insolvency. And you can bet your bottom dollar that in this economy that is exactly what they will do. The trustees do ask for anything and everything - including cc statements.

Have you ever thought what it may be like to live in a jail cell? Do you know how hard your life will be with a criminal record?

Don't be a fool. Don't do this - it will bite you in the ass and then tear out your insides.

This thread is too funny. Do you know how many people here stated that they took out huge cash advances/bal trans before they filed BK? There are many threads here where people only paid 3 months on them and then filed.

I am most certainly NOT suggesting that you do this, because it is outright fraud, but the ONLY difference here that is upsetting the posters is that you are admitting that you are insolvent and need to file BK before you take the advances.

Others who took cash advances before filing SHOULD have admitted they were insolvent and needed to file BK before they did it.

Either way, as HHM states, if you are trying to float money to stay out of BK, you need to file.

[chad9162]

My attorney said "anything" can be worked out with the trustee...meaning you pay them...

[fltoo]

MY lawyer asked If i had done any in the last 90days before filing. I told her I did some outside the 90days, she asked if any of the money went to my account or straight to the company. I told her I used one of those checks and she said good as it shouldn't be a problem.

Remember, greed is not good. Yes you may get away with it, but chances are you will pay a lot more down the road.

These two statements contradict each other.

[enin]

There are legal stipulations with regard to the recency of such transactions,
outside of which, it is incumbent upon an objecting trustee or, more commonly,
the creditor to PROVE, in a hearing, that the loans in question were
obtained "fraudulently".

While it is certainly responsible to advise someone that it is, in fact,
fraudulent to take cash advances and/or balance transfers with the con-
scious intent of filing for bankruptcy in hopes of discharging those debts,
I would hope that the "gurus", and other contributors to this forum would
seek to avoid scaring the hell out of the many, many, distraught and anxious
filers and future filers with admonitions of hellfire and eternal damnation.

There are so many (perhaps most) folks who have incurred debts when
they have been effectively insolvent, but still had hopes that their situation
would improve, and many (probably most) of them have been successful
in having their debts ultimately discharged through bankruptcy.

This is, after all, for the most part, the Story Of Bankruptcy! (n'est pas?)