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    Keeping an eye on dates

    Dear friends,
    This is a thought that occurred to me in my admittedly obsessive attention
    to "details".

    I'm preparing to file Pro Se around (May 1). I've already exhaustively studied
    and completed all the forms and schedules required, except those which will
    require current info. for April (the calendar month immediately preceding my
    filing date.

    I've determined to file May 1 so as to put, at least, five months between last
    use of cc's, and, most importantly, several balance transfers...can't really
    wait any longer.

    I'm self-employed w/a small, and generally unprofitable business, the income
    from which has been low enough that I've not filed (nor have I been required
    by the IRS to file) a tax return since 2001.

    Recognizing that, invariably, the trustee will request tax returns for,
    at least, the two years preceding the filing, I contacted the IRS and requested
    verifications of non-filing for all available years, which, fortunately, they sent.

    What I had not anticipated was that, on each verification of non-filing
    form, was the date upon which the verification was requested.
    Perhaps I'm really over-thinking this, but it occurred to me that, where
    specific dates are critical (especially with regard to recency of balance
    transfers) it would be far preferable to have all dates that appear on
    any documents that would appear to have been requested, and obtained
    for the purpose of filing for bankruptcy (such as the non-filing verifications),
    to be well after the "presumption of abuse" time window.

    This may have no relevance, but it would seem that having a "Date Requested"
    of, say, April 15 would "look" better than Feb. 15, which might
    "look" like filing plans and preparations were well under way (early on).
    Therefore, I'll be requesting the non-filing verifications, again, next month.
    I thought I'd share this consideration with others who may be requesting
    transcripts of previous years tax returns, etc.

    In continuing this (perhaps paranoid) train of thought, I've had similar
    thoughts regarding any date that would appear on the required counseling
    certificate. Just seems like it wouldn't hurt to have any date that would
    indicate "intent" be as close to the actual filing date as is (practically)
    possible.

    #2
    Wow! Havent thought of date on required counseling certificate as I to waited 4 months to file due to a balance transfer. Crdt Counseling was completed more than two months ago. Yikes! and I have allready filed, any input would be appreciated. Everyday goes by and seems like I am becoming more of a nervous wreck.
    From this day on I move FORWARD!!!
    Filed Chapter 7 on 3/20/09!
    Discharged 6/2009

    Comment


      #3
      We did our Pre Credit Counseling in 9/08 to the tune of $50 after meeting with our Attorney.

      Attorney did not Carefully examine all the documentation I gave him at the Free Consultation, but we paid him because he is only a Bankruptcy Attorney, nothing else, and is the closest one to our small town. We stopped paying credit cards on 9/25,08.

      After hubby finding this forum, it was brought to my attention my 401k, well actually a QDRO, was included as income. My last payment was Feb. 2009. So we are going to have to wait until Sept. 30, 2009 (using Mar-Aug gross income) to file.

      Guess What? Gotta take the 10 minute Pre Credit Counseling Over Again and, of course, pay. I agree on the counseling part.

      But Gee can't you just 'white out' the date on those IRS forms and recopy them. I can't imagine a Trustee would even think to look for that date as I believe he would be more concerned within the Body of the Letter where it States you were not required to file such and such Year Tax Return.

      Luci

      Comment


        #4
        I am waiting also due to bal transfers. I also need to gather all the paperwork. The original atty I met with said I need to wait a year between the bal transfers and filing or else I would have to pay them back- I think she didn't know her stuff now that I keep reading all this. One transfer was 1500 and the other was 4500. It's not like I took our 100K or anything. She scared me into waiting! The good side is I need time for all the paperwork.

        Comment


          #5
          Howdy folks,
          I really didn't want to exacerbate anyone's anxieties(!), and I suspect that
          most folks who have enjoyed success in discharge of their debts, weren't
          planning to the extent of the specific date issues I've brought up.

          Of course there are the REAL date issues, like the 70/90 days that are abso-
          lutely crucial, but I'd have to assume that anyone who's devoted even a min-
          mal amount of time to understanding the bottom-line basics is aware of these.

          I just wanted to share my thoughts regarding dates that may appear on tax
          transcripts, certificates, etc., primarily with those who are still in the planning
          stages, and, therefore, might just as easily still obtain "favorably" dated documents.

          As far as "whiting out" and replacing the dates on my IRS documents, there's
          no need for that, as I can simply request them again next month so that
          the "Date Requested" will be much closer to my filing date.
          I'll also wait until mid-April to take the counseling course, which, BTW, is
          available free in California...don't know about other states.

          Meanwhile, be careful and truthful, but, for Heaven's Sake Don't Worry!!!
          ...it's not worth it, and it doesn't help!
          Best wishes, and best of Luck to All!!!

          Comment


            #6
            You are over thinking this.

            Comment


              #7
              I agree with HHM...you all are way over thinking this. Remember that the required counseling has to be completed within the last six months prior to filing. Things happen. You changed your mind about filing and then a month later decided to file. You started to prepare the documents and then decided that maybe you should rethink the bankruptcy. You decided that you didn't have any current paperwork from the IRS and decided that if in the future you wanted to file that you might need this and had the foresight to have to documents on hand.

              I really don't think the trustee is going to ding you for trying to get prepared.

              Relax....It will all be okay.
              Filed - 12/24/08 (Merry Christmas Credit Cards!)
              341 - 2/5/09
              Confirmation - 3/13/09....Happy Dance!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Likely unnecessary precaution, but, at the same time, not a BAD idea either.

                I assume you wouldn't advise (or accept full responsibility) for advising
                someone who, as I said, is in the early stages of planning/preparation,
                to NOT take advantage of available opportunities to present the most
                consistent timeline possible, especially when this can be just as easily
                achieved...may not help, but certainly can't hurt!

                Quite aside from whatever scrutiny may, or may not, be applied by the
                trustee, any creditor considering objection has access to the filed docu-
                ments, and any dates/time-stamps that, however incidentally, might
                serve to support the debtors assertion that planning for bankruptcy was
                NOT in progress at the time that a particular debt was incurred, can
                only be a good thing, and, again, certainly can't hurt.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Those are some looooonnnnnng sentences!
                  Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                  Comment

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