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    Newbie w/questions regarding filing

    Hi everyone,

    I've been browsing the forum for a while now and at this point have a nuts and bolts idea of what we're considering getting into here. I do, however have a couple of questions specifically related to our situation, and a couple that are more general...

    First a little background: I lost my job 6 months ago and have been trying this whole time to find something respectable and worth it (anyone paying for daycare will understand that one!) My husband is self-employed and has hardly worked at all since mid-December. We've managed to stay afloat during this time by cashing out my 401k (wasn't much, don't yell at me! ), got some daycare expense reimbursed from my work plan, we sold our motorcycle, I cashed out a small insurance policy that had a cash value, and we have cut back on absolutely everything we could. We had to use the CC a few times but nothing too major except for December when my husband had to go overseas to take care of some legal stuff with his uncle and also wanted to go to a doctor for some health issues since we don't have insurance anymore here (Cheaper to buy the plane ticket since we didn't know what was wrong with him). We wrote a $3K check from the CC, put it in our checking account, paid January's mortgage payment and some utilities, he took 5- or 600 cash with him, and I drove up to MN (we live in IL) for the holidays. He also separately charged the plane ticket which was about $900. He was gone for a month, and when he came home, that's when we sold the bike - to a friend overseas. Part of the money from that sale is still overseas to assist with the legal stuff going on, the other half we used to pay the next mtg payment, buy some groceries/diapers, and paid tuition for my husband to attend a school to get his CDL license in an effort to find some work (and gee, that's going awesome!). March's mtg pmt is the first time we have not paid it, so we're only 23 days late right now. We've managed to pay the minimums or a smidge more on everything else. We've paid everything first and put food in the fridge second. At this point hubby is working on and off for a guy he's done work for consistently over the past couple years (but that guy's in a pickle too right now so it's very unstable and it's day-to-day). So, here we are...trying to figure out where the hell we go from here!

    So, my questions:

    1) If we file, is there anything we need to consider regarding the sale of the motorcycle? And also, it's still in our garage. We're waiting for a friend who is sending a container over there to get his act together so we can put the bike on the container. Can that be considered an asset since we sold it but still have possession? Likewise, it's still titled to hubby...not sure what they do to the titles overseas.

    2) We have two cars that are paid for, and in IL I guess there's a $2400 vehicle exemption. Our 98 Saab is probably fine, but we have an 06 Ford F150 that we have been planning for some time to send overseas as well. Can the trustee sell the truck? Additionally, it's titled in my husband's former business name (which was incorporated) but we closed the business Dec 08 due to said slow-down of work. Does that make a difference in whether the trustee can sell it?

    3) Is the $3K CC check and $900 airline charge going to make us have to wait to file or not necessarily considering what we actually used it for? We also recently transferred $8K from that card's balance to a new card because they were offering 0% interest for a year...thinking this would at least mean our measly payments at the moment would go to principle reduction). Can someone explain why balance transfers are to be avoided? It's not like it's "new" money spent.

    4) I've read a lot of posts regarding what you can spend your money on - is this in the time leading up to the time you file or once you file? We certainly haven't spent on any non-necessities - except Starbucks, but hey, we're allowed to have SOME semblance of our former lives, right?

    5) We're at the point now where we'd have to take more money off the CC to be able to keep paying everything on time, which is totally dumb but seemed logical because were desperate to keep our good credit. But we don't have a crystal ball and cannot stand living in limbo like this anymore, not knowing when the next paycheck might come and then watch how fast it waves bye-bye! So if we're seriously going to file, when's the time to stop paying the CC's?

    Whew! I know this is a long post, but I'd rather address everything in one spot so I don't lose track of multiple threads I posted! Thanks to everyone who made it this far and feels compelled to respond!!!

    #2
    Originally posted by 3littlebirds View Post
    Hi everyone,

    ....So, here we are...trying to figure out where the hell we go from here!

    So, my questions:

    1) If we file, is there anything we need to consider regarding the sale of the motorcycle? And also, it's still in our garage. We're waiting for a friend who is sending a container over there to get his act together so we can put the bike on the container. Can that be considered an asset since we sold it but still have possession? Likewise, it's still titled to hubby...not sure what they do to the titles overseas. Yes, this is an issue. First of all when you are selling an asset it is best to sell it to an independent third party in an arms length transaction for market value. You have sold this asset to a friend, hopefully you can prove you sold it for market value. You must not have possession of the motorcycle when you file AND the title must be registered in the new buyers name. This is a transfer of assets. You do have a leg to stand on with the trustee if you received market value and can prove it.

    2) We have two cars that are paid for, and in IL I guess there's a $2400 vehicle exemption. Our 98 Saab is probably fine, but we have an 06 Ford F150 that we have been planning for some time to send overseas as well. Can the trustee sell the truck? Additionally, it's titled in my husband's former business name (which was incorporated) but we closed the business Dec 08 due to said slow-down of work. Does that make a difference in whether the trustee can sell it? The former business of your husbands is considered an asset of the BK estate, even though the business is no longer operating. The truck, which is the business asset, also becomes an asset of the estate. I am assuming (??) that you own the truck outright. If you transfer the asset (truck) overseas it will be considered hiding assets by the Trustee. I believe the lookback on this is one year, but would need to check on this part of it.

    3) Is the $3K CC check and $900 airline charge going to make us have to wait to file or not necessarily considering what we actually used it for? We also recently transferred $8K from that card's balance to a new card because they were offering 0% interest for a year...thinking this would at least mean our measly payments at the moment would go to principle reduction). Can someone explain why balance transfers are to be avoided? It's not like it's "new" money spent.Ok, you have taken a cash advance AND done a large balance transfer. You must wait a min of 90 days from the last date of these transactions before you file or the debt can be presumed an abuse by the Trustee and become either 'not dischargeable' or your case can get dismissed altogether. You do NOT want to have your case dismissed and I am sure you would rather have the debt discharged. Hopefully you have made at least 3 payments since the balance transfers and cash advances have been made so you can show intent to repay. You have a way to fix this - after you have made a few payments you need to wait quite a few months anyway because of the motorcycle and truck issue, so don't do any more cash advances, balance transfers or charges.

    4) I've read a lot of posts regarding what you can spend your money on - is this in the time leading up to the time you file or once you file? We certainly haven't spent on any non-necessities - except Starbucks, but hey, we're allowed to have SOME semblance of our former lives, right? Most of the posts dealing with what you can spend your money on are pre-planning questions on spending down funds that are over the allowed exemptions for filing. Most of the additional funds have come from either tax refunds or unexpected bonus payments or lump sums that exceed the allowed exemptions. Check your state's exemptions at www.legalconsumer.com to see what your exemptions are

    5) We're at the point now where we'd have to take more money off the CC to be able to keep paying everything on time, which is totally dumb but seemed logical because were desperate to keep our good credit. But we don't have a crystal ball and cannot stand living in limbo like this anymore, not knowing when the next paycheck might come and then watch how fast it waves bye-bye! So if we're seriously going to file, when's the time to stop paying the CC's?Most people stop paying once they realize they are going to have to file - but you need to pay on your cards where you have taken the cash advance and completed the recent balance transfers. Stop paying after you have made enough payments to show intent to repay.

    Whew! I know this is a long post, but I'd rather address everything in one spot so I don't lose track of multiple threads I posted! Thanks to everyone who made it this far and feels compelled to respond!!!
    I hope this does not discourage you. The responses are meant to caution you so you do not end up in a mess and that you can have a successful BK. You do have some issues that need to be addressed - primarily the BT's and cash advances and the transferring of assets to a family friend.
    Filed CH 7 9/30/2008
    Discharged Jan 5, 2009! Closed Jan 18, 2009

    I am not an attorney. None of my advice is legal advice in any way..

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you StartingOver for taking the time to respond to my lengthy post!

      So it looks like the bike is going to be a problem. Firstly since I don't know how we'd prove exactly what we got for it, but it would have been about equal to what we'd have gotten at the dealer if we'd have just sold it back to them (which is obviously less than what they'd have turned around and sold it for). We figured if we were going to take the loss, better for our buddy to benefit instead of the dealer. There's also no way to prove the money we recieved - the guy who bought it gave a portion of the money (cash) to my husband's mom over there and the other half (cash) was given to another guys' parents over there, so then [I]that[I]guy (who lives here) gave us the cash equal to what his parents got since he would have sent them that money anyway. It was the quickest way to get money to pay the mortgage at that time. Complicated for sure, but that's how it works when you have overseas relatives/friends.

      For the truck...hmmmm. We tried to sell it for a long time before we decided to just send it overseas (it is paid for). I guess when I talk to an attorney I'll have to ask about considerations for the business since they'll consider it an asset....although it's not like the business was worth anything. If we can sell that truck somehow now, we would have to sell it to a third party (preferably not someone overseas!) and get fair market value for it to not be an issue, correct?

      I pretty much figured the CC situation answer, thank you for clarifying it for me. We have made I think 2, maybe 3, payments on the one card and just paid the first payment on the new card, and actually paid more than minimums since we didn't have enough to cover our mtg pmt this month we used the "extra" to make a bigger payment on the CC's.

      It's looking like if we do this, it'll be a while before we are able to even file.

      Comment


        #4
        Ummmm...that bike transaction does look complicated! I am not even sure how to address it, maybe someone else can clarify how to work out this transaction so it does not look like you are transferring assets to a friend.

        The truck is already overseas and that was owed free and clear of any lien - so again, the Trustee would be highly interested in the truck as it would have been easy to liquidate. Remember the Trustee is looking for $$$ or easily convertable assets to pay creditors. That too is an issue that needs to be straightened out prior to your filing.
        Filed CH 7 9/30/2008
        Discharged Jan 5, 2009! Closed Jan 18, 2009

        I am not an attorney. None of my advice is legal advice in any way..

        Comment


          #5
          The truck is still here...we haven't sent it yet. So we could sell it if we got a fair price or safer to let the trustee take it!?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by StartingOver08 View Post
            I hope this does not discourage you. The responses are meant to caution you so you do not end up in a mess and that you can have a successful BK. You do have some issues that need to be addressed - primarily the BT's and cash advances and the transferring of assets to a family friend.
            I think you did a great job of responding without calling this exactly what it is. Great JOB startingover.
            Chapter 7 07/30/2008
            341 09/17/2008
            Discharge 11/21/2008

            Comment


              #7
              Thank goodness the truck is still here! You can sell it, but you need to make sure it is to a third party for 'market value'. Make sure the buyer properly registers the vehicle in their name. Keep track of what you do with the funds in case the Trustee asks.

              Where people get into issues is turning non-exempt assets into exempt assets - that's where you need to be careful. That and selling to friends and relatives!
              Filed CH 7 9/30/2008
              Discharged Jan 5, 2009! Closed Jan 18, 2009

              I am not an attorney. None of my advice is legal advice in any way..

              Comment


                #8
                TEW, I hope you're not insinuating what I think you are. We are seriously in a bind and after reading post after post here about what is all involved in BK I realized that some of the things we've done thus far to keep paying our bills will probably be scrutinized and I need to be prepared if they are. We have had NOTHING but honest intentions and we don't know what to do. Simple as that.

                Comment


                  #9
                  StartingOver,

                  We'll have to figure out what to do about the truck. Can't imagine it'll be any easier to sell now than when we tried before, but who knows!?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You can always still try to sell it. However you do need to get market value, and it is better if its a stranger rather than a friend or family member. If you can't sell it be prepared to surrender the truck.

                    You're doing the right step thinking things out, it might take a bit but you'll come through. Make sure to keep careful notes of what money you received and what it was spent on
                    May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
                    July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
                    September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

                    Comment

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