question about Judgements, again.

[sadly]

I plan on filing soon, without a lawyer. But I have 2 civil judgements against me on my credit report that originated as credit card debt. I did a search on this and other forums, and from what I understand those judgements are not eliminated even after the BK is discharged; I have to file a motion to vacate, and my only grounds for doing so would be that I was never served with papers. And my only real hope would be that their side doesn't show up for the hearing.

My questions are:
1. Is what I've written above correct?
2. Has anyone here personally been in the same situation, with judgements against them prior to filing, and somehow gotten those judgements removed, without hiring a lawyer or other proffesional?
3. If I list the original creditor on the form, but I am not able to eliminate the judgements, do I still have to worry about wage garnishment, etc?
4. Is there a time limit for judgements, or am I going to end paying them one way or another?
5. Should I list the judgements as secured debt on the forms, and if so, how ?
The original debt was not secured, but its my understanding, from reading here and in other forums, that the judgement somehow makes the debt secure.
6. Is there a section of the Nolo book on this. The items I can find are about liens, and the book specifies that liens are created after a judgement is entered, so they are not the same thing.



I understand that it would be best to hire a lawyer, but right now my only two options are proceeding without one, or not filing now.

I live in within the Eastern District of New York. Thanks.

[desertoasis]

Me Too!!

Although I cannot help with your questions, just wanted to post as I am in the same boat. No liens as yet... BUT 2 of 4 CC judgments are FILED here in District court. Maybe someone has some input as to how to handle these in chapter 7?? Surely the stay will eliminate the possibilities of liens??
Thanks for any help!!

[StaciMM]

The BK discharges the debt, meaning that after the BK the creditor can no longer enforce the judgement as you don't owe them any longer. I don't know that you can get it off your credit report. It should be updated to show that the debt was included in the BK.

[desertoasis]

So, as far as listing them, do you do it as a court case number and amount of judgment? Then list the attorney for the plaintiff as a creditor too? (For his fees?) Then when listing that CC account put $0 balance and put the dollar amount in the judgment listing? Filing pro se so don't want to make any mistakes. Thanks so much for your help.

[joefromky]

Not sure if it helps, But I have a civil suit against me for a loan. Im going tommorow to court to have the judgement set aside due to filing bankruptcy.

The suit was started before I filed bankruptcy but the creditor continued it even after getting notice of my filing. I talked to the court clerk and they set up a court date to have it heard for it to be dismissed. (Actually tommorow morning, not sure what made me more nervous this or my 341 meeting)

[Brendan]

Creditor's view of judgement

I had some renters who decided to put their foot through every interior door in the rental house, cut down the trees, urinated on the walls and you can imagine the rest.

They did the damage on the last day before moving into their new home that they bought shortly before moving (they were not evicted).

Knowing they could never pay the total damages, I sued them in small claims court and won a $7,500 judgement. My costs (now on my credit card) exceed $20,000 and cost me hundreds in interst each month. Not to mention struggling all summer to repair what we could ourselves and having to make another mortgage payment each month since it was in no condition to rent.

Ten days after they lost in court, they filed Chapter 7 (not that they had many debts) but just to avoid the judgement. In the small claims case they never denied doing the damage but said it should have been covered in their deposit of $900 and maybe a little more. They refused to discuss any payments etc..

Because their new house payment is $1,500 and they net about $3,500 per month, the living expenses fill the remaining amount of the funds available. My attorney said this is typical and there is nothing I can do.

Now you have all intrigued me with this notion of the judgement staying on the property. If they sell their house four years from now will my judgement surface on the title?

[StaciMM]

Not if they filed BK and their debts were discharged. The judgement will still be noted on the credit report. (Bad entries, judgement included, stay for 7 years.) The BK discharges the debt-they no longer owe it. You can't pursue them for it. The BK court does not take kindly to creditors that try to collect on a debt after discharge.

[HHM]

Staci, you are wrong on this point, a debtor has to affirmatively file a motion to avoid a judicial lien, otherwise it survives the bankruptcy. There is a legal difference between a debt owed and a lien. Discharging a debt does not automatically void the security interest.

In Brendan's case for example, if he got a judgment and properly recorded it with the county recorder before the debtor's filed BK, then his lien will survive the bankruptcy unless the debtors filed a motion to avoid the lien.

[desertoasis]

HHM..could you expand a bit on the motion

If I have a judgment already filed by the CC company then I would need to file a motion to avoid lien WITH my BK petition & schedules or with the district court where it was filed? (I have not recieved anything about a lien though.) I'm filing ch 7 pro se. We only have about $20K equity and are allowed $60K exemption. I heard somewhere that some people are "judgment proof"...that basically state exemptions would cover the judgments, but now I see that the lien could still be valid years later when our financial situation may be better? Thanks for any input.

[Minera]

there must be a confusion here, in CT I was told that any judgements, i.e. small claims, or otherwise are discharged in a chapter 7 bankruptcy. I understand liens etc..like a house or on a vehicle where they can foreclose or repossess but I talked to the bankruptcy clerks office and to the trustee who both told me anything I list including judgement on my schedule f will be discharged. As long as it isn't secured like credit cards I would think it was dischargeable (except of course the student loans, child support, and irs stuff).

[Minera]

HHM, may I ask what Brendan would have a lien on? It was a small claims court civil judgement which would be discharged under chapter 7. Under the bankruptcy code it states civil judgements are discharged under chapter 7, unless it's changed since I read it last.

[Brendan]

What the lien is on - response

The County has the judgement filed - the debtor owns property in the County