Under median by couple thousand, but over means by $200

[CatsInTrouble]

What should I do?

We are (now) under the median by about $3000. But our lawyer ran our budget numbers on Friday...

Using the legalconsumer calculator we got NEGATIVE 63 leftover per month. But our lawyer ended up with POSITIVE two hundred per month WTF?

HIs next appt was there, so he kind of hustled us out quick, saying he'd look again.

Do you think we should do anything? We can send him some more expenses, right-- go over and see if we missed anything?

Any ideas? I forgot vet expenses, so that's something...

[lrprn]

With only $200/month over, go through your checkbooks and paid bills looking to add in a few expenses.

The difference between what you got on the Means Test you did yourself and the one your lawyer did could be due to several things:
- Your lawyer knows something about your income or expenses that the trustee won't accept and modified your figures on the form accordingly
- You mis-interpreted something on the Means Test when you filled it out and inserted the wrong numbers
- The lawyer overlooked income or expenses you gave him.
- You left out something when you gave your financial figures to your lawyer that you used when you filled out the Means Test.

Sit down with your lawyer and ask him to go over his Means Test line by line. Question anything that doesn't agree with what you had on your own Means Test. Be prepared to hear that a figure that seems very straightforward to you isn't straightforward at all.

Hope you figure out the discrepancy soon. Good luck!
-

[luvu283]

I thought if you were under the median they dont even look at the means test. At least, I am in ohio and my lawyer didnt do a means test because we were under the median income based on family size. So is that different for each state?

[HHM]

I thought if you were under the median they dont even look at the means test. At least, I am in ohio and my lawyer didnt do a means test because we were under the median income based on family size. So is that different for each state?

Not quite...it is not different in each state.

In EVERY BK you must still complete Schedules I & J (income and expense). Even if you are below the median, if your I & J shows DMI, you will be put in a chapter 13. Realistically, the only time this happens is if someone has abnormally low expenses (which is unfortunate because the BK code punishes the frugal).

As LRPRN stated, if its only $200 over, you should be able to absorb that somewhere in your budget. You can be a little a bit (less than $100), and still get a 7.

[CatsInTrouble]

Yes, luvu I think it is different. For example, if you use the means test at legalcnsumer.com, it tells you to STOP if you pass MEDIAn and it sayd DON'T BOTHER to go on to the Means test.

Meanwhile, I asked around here, and someone with some knowledge explained the phrase "totality of the circumstances"- that is, the law requires a court to look at the TOTALITY of all your finaces.

So who knows why some areas go on, and some don't go on. It must be prevalent enough for legalconsumer.com to say "Stop here and don't worry about hte rest"-- but it must be prevalent enough in m district for the lawyer NOT to stop...!

[CatsInTrouble]

HHM- what's the magic number> Do we know? I've seen 187 and 100... I say 166 on another website.

[lockedout]

On the means test I think it says 110.

[luvu283]

thats something thats interesting because i agree that can be misleading on the website legalconsumer, and through my lawyer. He just calculated based on our pay stubs and said we qualified for chapter 7 , nothing more. Well, good luck with your filing!

[CatsInTrouble]

What's the Magic Means Test Number

Sorry, con'd from this thread: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=35561

What's the magic number you MUST be under on the MONTHLY BUDGET MEANS test? I've seen all kinds of different numbers. Right now I am positive 200-something.

Sorry, moderator, if I shouldn't start a new thread.... Delete if you must!

[Didn't delete, but did merge this thread with your previous thread. Please don't start a new thread when you've already asked the question on another thread - that's against our forum rules. Thanks! -lrprn]

[justbroke]

There is no real "magic" number. You want that disposable income number to be less than $100.00 a month. The other threshold number is $166.67 a month. There are factors which would allow you to use either number, but too complex to really get into.

Suffice it to say that, you want it to be under $166.67; preferably under $100; and the best would be closer to zero (or negative even)!

[jeb]

I am gong to assume - VERY dangerous thing to do - that your Attorney looked at your income and, using his experience, noted that you should have no problem filing a 7.

He will have to have the sch I and J filled out in detail when he files and those are the numbers that count.

Listen to H - he knows what he is talking about. - jb

[welovedis]

We were positive $199 and are being converted to a CH 13. Over the "old" median by less than $2K, we are currently under the "new" median".

[CatsInTrouble]

Dis- I recall your case

So, yes, we are under median, especially the new median. So he is thinking a 7 and we are hoping a 7. But he hit the snag when he found our budget equalled out to +200 a month (again, yah right!). But he didn't say what he was going to do or what he recommended, other than "let me look again and I will call you."


Thanks for taking care of my thread moderator. Between 100 and 166. Got it. THanks all!

[HHM]

Keep in mind, the intial budget the lawyer runs are the numbers YOU provided. They don't make any changes before they talk to you.

[welovedis]

Dis- I recall your case

So, yes, we are under median, especially the new median. So he is thinking a 7 and we are hoping a 7. But he hit the snag when he found our budget equalled out to +200 a month (again, yah right!). But he didn't say what he was going to do or what he recommended, other than "let me look again and I will call you."


Thanks for taking care of my thread moderator. Between 100 and 166. Got it. THanks all!

Cats--are you sure you are thinking of everything in your budget--haircuts, newspaper subscription, vehicle registration & inspections, oil changes, home maintenance that is irregular (like driveway sealing if you have blacktop), stuff like that? Any medical expenses that you aren't thinking about--non-reimbursed dental or medical expenses that you paid out of pocket? Realistically look at every single number and make sure you aren't short-changing yourself.

We did, (short-change our budget because we are very frugal) and because we are that way, and we didn't know about this site we are on our way to our CH 13 hearings. I know our case was slightly more complicated by some other things but I firmly believe had we found this site & been better informed we could have planned our BK better and would be (probably) filing a CH 7 with no issues.

Go over those numbers with a fine toothed comb!